Buying the components I'll need to reload for my Krag and these gas checks are totally new to me. I want to use lead bullets because they are cheaper and apparently Krags like them, but I see lead bullets with and without gas checks (presumably the later come without the gas checks but provide the option of installing them). I need bullets sized to about .311 or .312 since my bore slugs to .3108 and I have come across a few expensive jacketed ones sized to .312 but they are roughly $30 per 100 which means I will seldom be shooting my Krag. But I did find these on midway;

  (You need to Login

$68 per 500 is a lot more to my liking, I'll actually be able to afford to shoot my Krag. They are on the heavier side, round nose and sized just a bit larger than the bore. But at what point or fps do I definitely need a gas checked lead bullet? Can I get away with the above for fun at the range? This is in a real 1899 Krag carbine that I want to punch paper at 100yards. Thanks

Gas checks help control lead fouling when cast bullets are driven over about 1500 fps. At lower velocities they are generally superfluous but sometimes enhance accuracy.

Jacketed bullets, especially those with plenty of bearing surface, are usually OK even when a bit under groove diameter (not bore diameter, that's the diameter between lands). If you haven't tried .308" jacketed bullets in your Krag you might be surprised how well they can shoot. That is, after all, the nominal bullet diameter of GI and commercial .30/40 ammunition.

With cast bullets, it's desirable that the rear of the bullet fit the rifle's throat (usually a bit over groove diameter) and critical that the nose is a snug fit between the lands. If the nose is undersize, accuracy can be elusive.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login   (You need to Login   (You need to Login

Parashooter wrote on Feb 19^th, 2012 at 4:41am:

If you haven't tried .308" jacketed bullets in your Krag you might be surprised how well they can shoot. That is, after all, the nominal bullet diameter of GI and commercial .30/40 ammunition.

Agreed. I would at least try that before I went with cast/gas checks.  The original .30 Government load was a .308, 220 Gr. RN bullet.  Try it and you might just find that your Krag really likes them.  The throat was designed with them in mind.

Thanks for the replies. See I want to use lead though as I save a ton of money by shooting lead in all my guns except my AR. If you guys really think I should stick with jacketed I will, but it was my understanding that Krags worked really well with cast lead bullets.

I looked on midway at .308 jacketed round nose bullets in the 220gr weight and they're all $30+ per 100. No doubt that those are fine and necessary choices for hunting, but I don't hunt, all I want to do is have some fun punching paper at 100 yards and I'm not trying to win any competitions at that either.

If I did go with the lead bullets I linked above, I'm assuming I would need to put gas checks on them since most loads for Krags fall somewhere around 2000fps?

P.S. parashooter, do you have that parkhurst clip loading system that is shown in your avatar? My understanding is that they are very rare.

I also use the .308 220 grain round nose bullets for Krags.  The 220 grain round nose has a very long bearing surface,  and I have found this bullet type, propelled at or near the original military velocity,  to shoot quite well.

I have used both the Hornady and Sierra 220 grain .308 bullets,  both with very good results. 

Marcus99 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

If I did go with the lead bullets I linked above, I'm assuming I would need to put gas checks on them since most loads for Krags fall somewhere around 2000fps? P.S. parashooter, do you have that parkhurst clip loading system that is shown in your avatar? My understanding is that they are very rare.

1. For "paper punching" at 100 yards, there's no need for that much velocity. 1100 to 1500 fps is plenty and can work well without gas checks. Don't, however, expect outstanding results with commercial cast bullets, which seldom fit as well as those you cast and size yourself.

2. That's not the Parkhurst system. Home-grown charger.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

Parashooter:

I know it's off the thread line,  but have you put together any posts concerning your home grown charger?  Simply amazing!

See   (You need to Login

Marcus99

I shoot lead in my Krags almost exclusively for the same reason you state.  Although, it might take a little experimentation and trying different bullets and loads.  Cast bullets can provide excellent accuracy in these rifles and I cast my own.  It sounds like you are looking for already cast bullets and that could be a crap shoot.  Like another poster stated, the nose should just ride on the lands, while the rear of the bullet should fill the grooves. 

At lower velocities you would certainly not need the gas-checks and AFAIK you need a bullet-sizer to install most gas checks.  Don't believe you can install them any other way, so keep that extra expense/work in mind.

I cast the Lee 200 gr. TL gas check bullet sized .001" over groove diameter (slug your bore if you haven't already).  I install gas checks during the sizing operation.  I load these over 16 grs. of Aliant 2400.  This is a time-honored load for these rifles and is very accurate and has plenty of power to go all the way through paper at 100 yds. :)

daveboy

Thanks Fred. That sounds beyond what I am set up for now, although I applaud you for making bullets of that quality, I bet you can drive tacks with those. I checked my Lyman 49th and it says bullet mold 311284 was originally made for the .30-40 Krag, fortunately Montanabullets sells those gas checked. However I just bought a big bundle of equipment on Midwayusa so I can finally start reloading for my rifles. I figured to save shipping I would try these 220gr Jacketed Hornady .308's. If I can't find these locally I will probably buy a few hundred of those 311284's from Montanabullets

Also in my manual I see IMR 4895 listed for both the 69gr SMK I am going to be shooting in my AR and for the 220gr Hornady for my Krag, apparently with good results in both rounds. That makes me happy because I can keep it simple and stick with one powder for both rounds.

BTW, this whole thing about checking rifle rounds in case gauges is new to me, never had to do that when I reload for my pistols. Can I just measure the case and finished round with my caliper, or is there something I am missing? I didn't even see a case gauge for .30-40 Krag.

L.E. Wilson case gauge is Midway product # 428178.

You get pretty much what you pay for with commercial cast bullets.

I've loaded for many, many different rifle calibers and have never needed a case guage.  They have their place in high-power semi-autos and I am sure they could be used to make competition-type ammo.  As I understand it, the guage primarily ensures that your "bottleneck" cartridge headspaces correctly.  The .30-40 is a "rimmed" cartridge and it headspaces on the rim.  Everyone has their own opinion, but don't make this harder than it should be...you are looking to have fun punching paper at 100 yds....same thing I do.

My advice is to "neck size" only.  When the cartridge is fired the first time, it will form to the size of your individual chamber (which is slightly different from any other guns chamber).  Why squeeze that cartridge back down to original size after each firing if it will only be used again in that particular rifle?  The only part that needs to be reformed is the neck.  So, take your once-fired brass and mark the neck and shoulder area with a coating of soot (from a candle).  Put your resizing die into your press, but do not run it down very far.  Run the smoked cartridge into the die and keep turning down the die until you can see where it is knocking the soot off the neck.  Keep removing the cartridge and turning down the die until you can see that the entire neck is being squeezed down, but not so far that the shoulder is being compressed.  Lock your die at that position and never change it. 

Your brass will last much longer and it is much easier to resize.  Plus, in theory, there is some advantage in accuracy to this since the cartridge exactly fits the chamber it is fired in. 

I have used IMR 4895 in my Krags with 180 grain jacketed bullets and had excellent results.  Remember, since you have a carbine, it is a relatively lightweight rifle.  As such, if you touch off those big, 220 grain slugs in front of anything approaching a max powder load, it might be a little uncomfortable.  Those old soldiers were tough!

fred

Thank you Fred, very helpful info.

I may see if my LGS has a case gauge for .223, I've read headspace is of greater concern in semiauto bottleneck cases. Of course, I could always check it by dropping it into the barrel, but that is more difficult on an AR than a Krag.

I'm glad you mentioned full length vs neck sizing. I bought .30-40 Krag Lee dies and the only set available was the Pacesetter which includes a full length sizing die. No neck sizing dies were available. I have heard, as you also say, that with bolt action rifles it is better to just neck size. It seems from your post that you are saying I can adjust a full length die to just neck size, correct? I understand your explanation of how to adjust the die so I think I should be all set with that.

Haha, you say this Carbine is "light", it feels like a brick compared to my AR, I can't imagine how those cavalry guys shot these carbines with 220gr loads while riding a horse.

I made a great find while at my LGS buying powder and primers. Ended up over in the cast bullet section and I found the 311284 cast bullets with gas checks, 100 for $15, $7 cheaper than online.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

So I'm very happy I was able to find those locally, now I can try both bullets in my Krag. However neither of my manuals list 4895 for the 210gr 311284 bullet. Does anyone have loading data for that powder with that bullet? Thanks

Marcus99

You understand correctly.  Adjust your full-length dies as I described.  Once adjusted for your rifle you will never need to change them.

fred

Marcus99

Those work well in the Krag.  But before you shoot them, inspect them, looking for wrinkles & obvious bubble or inclusions.  Cull out those.  Then weigh each of the inspected & unculled bullets & segregate by weight.  When you test the accuracy of a given load, use only bullets weighing within 1/2 grain.

waterman

Hello Marcus & everyone else,
   Newbie here from Nebraska. Always have loved these old Krags. The 16.0 grains of 2400 powder seems to be "the load" for most .30/.31 caliber cartridges of this size. I shoot it behind various cast/gas checked bullets and it's just fine, especially for a hundred yards. I no longer have the 311284 mould but am going to order a 311299 mould which is similar.
   Good luck with your reloading,
        DocBob