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Message started by butlersrangers on Mar 27th, 2012 at 10:59pm

Title: Marines?
Post by butlersrangers on Mar 27th, 2012 at 10:59pm
I recently saw this "Magic Lantern" Slide on ebay described as Spanish American War Artillerymen.  It appears to me they may be bearing Winchester-Lee Straight-pull Rifles.  Are these Marines or are they Artillerymen with "Trap-doors"?
SAW-art_men.jpg ( 82 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by mjanway on Mar 28th, 2012 at 12:26am
Were Marines ever allowed to have beards?

Jack

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by reincarnated on Mar 28th, 2012 at 12:46am
I vote for trapdoors.  With my magnifying glass, I think I see hammers on the starboard side of each rifle.

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by butlersrangers on Mar 28th, 2012 at 12:52am
reincarnated:  Yes, I think you are right.  Quess I just got excited by the color!

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by docbob on Mar 28th, 2012 at 1:08am
I would say they are trapdoors. the 2nd man from the right certainly looks to be carrying a trapdoor as the hammer seems pretty evident.
   Just my 2 cents

       DocBob

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by reincarnated on Mar 28th, 2012 at 1:45am
The next question is "what kind of unit?"  The color is not accurate.  If they were artillery, the stripe on the sergeant's trousers would be red.  Could they be some sort of National Guard unit?

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by Marcus99 on Mar 28th, 2012 at 11:34am
I know that area, a little south of midtown. I can tell you that there is no grass left there now for military drills, and definitely no ranges to practice shooting your .45-70 or Krag!

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by butlersrangers on Mar 28th, 2012 at 1:10pm
Marcus99:  I believe the address is that of the Photograph Slide Maker, not where the picture was taken.

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by Kirk on Mar 28th, 2012 at 3:39pm
The belt buckles appear to have crossed rifles or crossed sabers looks like what the Army Infantry or Calvary would use.  They do not look, to me, to be crossed cannons.  If they were Marines, wouldn't the insignia include the globe & anchor?

The barrels appears to be not long enough to be a trapdoor rifle & the stock too long to be a carbine.

I don't see any bayonets hanging from belts.  That would be expected if the arms are some type of carbine.  The Lee Navy bayonet scabbard had wire hooks to fit in eyelets.  The belts shown could be for the Lee Navy.  The Lee rifle had a pistol grip and I do not see any in the photo although it is difficult to tell.    (You need to Login

To me, the rifles apprear not to be either Krags or trapdoors.  I'd have to guess they are Lee Navy rifles.

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by Weston on Mar 28th, 2012 at 7:07pm
Here's the SpanAm War era marine "pillbox" hat with the globe and anchor. Clearly the same style hat but I can't make out the emblem in this pic.

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Title: Re: Marines?
Post by reincarnated on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:14pm
I know the color is bad, but all the Lee Navy rifles I have ever seen have very dark wood.  Also, the rifle on the far right is the only one where we might see a pistol grip stock and it does not seem to be visible.  Also the Lee had a 28" barrel.  It would only be a couple of inches shorter than a Krag rifle.

Could it be that this is a still from a movie? 

Can anyone identify the hats?

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by butlersrangers on Mar 29th, 2012 at 12:01am
After looking at pictures of the Marine Kepi (which seems to 'bell-out' at the top), I'm concluding these troops are wearing the Army style of Kepi.  What looks like crossed weapons on their Mills Buckles could just be a reflection off the recessed "U.S." or National Guard Letters.  The device on their Caps could be crossed cannons.  The original caption "Artillerymen" is probably correct.   The artist may have taken liberties with trim colors when hand tinting the slide.  It's likely the rifles are trap-doors.

Title: Re: Marines?
Post by 5MadFarmers on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:24am

The "crossed cannons" on the belt buckles are a reflection but the ones on the hats do not appear to be.

Those are Mills loop belts.  The USMC, if I'm getting the order right, had Lees at that time.  Lees have magazines and the belts are leather with pockets for clips.

Artillery with trapdoors.

The kersey is dark blue and sky blue - standard army colors.  The tunics appear to be the pre-1890 edition.

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