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General >> Older threads >> Ceremonial Krags
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1337694673 Message started by eldorablerentals on May 22nd, 2012 at 1:51pm |
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Title: Ceremonial Krags Post by eldorablerentals on May 22nd, 2012 at 1:51pm
I recently ran into a unique situation. I bought some Krag ceremonial rifles. They were redone by the military into Chrome parade rifles. They chromed pretty much everything. I had noticed these rifles at funerals, ceremonial guards etc. I have never seen one for sale. I bought three of them. Here's the catch, they don't have front sights on them. I guess when you are parading and shooting blanks, you don't need to aim!
I need to come up with a front sight that I can put on to shoot, but remove without tearing up the authenticity. I have a certificate of authenticity with each gun. After getting them I have decided I'll either sell one or two of them. Does anyone know what they are worth? :D |
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by 98src on May 22nd, 2012 at 9:20pm
Looks like one reason there is no front sight is that the barrels appear to have been cut off as well as having the stocks shortened.
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by Ned Butts on May 23rd, 2012 at 12:02am
I would be interested in hearing more about the certificate of authenticity that came with these. What branch of the military redid them and who is certifying them?
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by eldorablerentals on May 23rd, 2012 at 10:58pm
I bought them through the Civilian marksmanship program. They had some chromed ones... I bought all three usable ones. They are just as released from the military. Not necessarily as originally manufactured, but arsenal redone.
They are pretty things... but I also want to shoot them. I have checked and I have good rifling. |
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by Century2 on May 24th, 2012 at 1:23pm
Original front base bases can be found from time to time. They can be polished mirror bright – I’ve done it for a CMP Criterion barrel I left in the white. They can be silver soldered to a dovetail cut atop the barrel – I’ve done it three times. It’s not easy, not cheap and luck played no small part in my successes. When done it should match the plating fairly well. Some plated rifles can be fired and some should never – the metal testing required to prove one way or the other is way out of the question. The risk is in the possibility of hydrogen embrittlement ( (You need to Login). Now some rifles are triple-chrome-plated at a bumper shop and some are simply nickel plated by a gunsmith; most are likely somewhere in the middle. I believe I have one of each. The one I believe is simply nickel plated has a breach still appearing in the white as does the bore and it came to me as a “shooter” and it shoots regular loads very well – I’ve shot it several times however I do not use the “chromed” bolt for shooting. The one believe is truly chrome plated has breech and bore clearly affected by the plating and I’d dare not shoot it for recreational purposes (bore is awesome though). I have since given up bringing mine to the range because of the heckling I get on the above issues – I’ll take it to the woods though and use light loads. The unanswerable question beforehand: how many rounds does it take for an embrittled part to fail? Always assess risk. And hey, strapping it to a tree and firing it with rope pull the first several times would really not be a ridiculous idea if it came to mind.
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by eldorablerentals on May 25th, 2012 at 7:32pm
I have seen references to putting 1903 barrels on Krags and enfield parts etc.
I was wondering... Is the OD of the barrel the same as either an enfield or a 1903? The practical reason for asking is whether I can buy a sight for an enfield or a 1903 or A3 and put it on? Those are readily available. I can't seem to find a Krag sight. |
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by reincarnated on May 26th, 2012 at 4:29pm
I am curious about the very shiny one. Does the thickness of the plating interfere with the mechanical functioning of the bolt & action? Does it still have the slick bolt operation that is common to regular Krags? And what is the bore & groove diameter of the plated barrel? I think if it were mine, I would try it with light cast bullet loads.
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by tanker on May 26th, 2012 at 7:49pm
Not real sure why firing a ceremonial rifle would be of concern, since by definition it is and was created for ceremonial purposes. Fire blanks, hang on wall or march in parades as intended, maybe doing these things will put you in contact with someone who knows of a true shooter that can be purchased. The weapon has been modified for a reason (not bubba'd) let it be, IMHO
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by reincarnated on May 27th, 2012 at 1:59am
My interest is in the internal dimensions of the barrel of the most heavily plated rifle. Did the chrome plating decrease the dimensions of the bore & groove below the original & generous tolerances of the Krag?
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by Top Dean on May 27th, 2012 at 3:32am
without seeing the rifle there is noway for anyone to know. i would take it to a gunsmith and have them look at it and let him tell you what you are asking. There is no way for anyone to know without seeing the rifle up close.
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by eldorablerentals on May 28th, 2012 at 12:33pm
Well, the actions work just as smooth as can be. I just slugged the barrel... I thought that was a good question raised.
It is 303 at it's least and 308 at it's most. |
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by reincarnated on May 28th, 2012 at 4:25pm
Thanks, El. I would shoot it with cast bullets. A nice round nosed design cast at about 1:20 and sized to .310. For my 1st trial, I would load for 1400 fps.
I don't think I would try any full power loads. Krags were brittle enough without delving into any theoretical changes in metallurgy. |
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Title: Re: Ceremonial Krags Post by IditarodJoe on May 29th, 2012 at 11:52pm
With the qualifier "As I understand it . . ." It is true, all of the surplus rifles sold by the Civilian Marksmanship Program are received directly from the Army but there's a catch. The Army also supplies ceremonial rifles to veterans' organizations (AL, VFW) and takes them back when the post turn them in. They are then forwarded to the CMP to be sold to the public.
Many things happened while these rifles were in the hands of the veterans' organization, and those frequently included cutting down the stock and barrel to match the length of the 1903s that the post might also have. (Can't have rifles of different lengths marching in a parade!) Virtually all of the Krags that have been sold by the CMP in recent years have come from veterans' organizations. There are a number of kinds of chrome plating. For chromed rifles and bayonets, what is generally done is called "Decorative Chrome Plating". This is a thin layer of chrome plated over a layer of nickel (which may be over a layer of copper plate). A good plating house can reverse-electroplate the finish off easily and inexpensively. You can order a good reproduction Krag front sight from S & S Firearms, HTH |
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