Who out there has experience with mounting a Criterion barrel (avail thru CMP) on a Krag rifle?  Since the barrel comes timed with holes drilled and tapped for the rear sight and a dovetail for the front sight, I'm particularly interested in how to mount the front sight.  Am I supposed to take the front sight off the original and mill it to fit?  Thanks.

I installed a Criterion barrel in my dad's Garand... and they are excellent.  I haven't installed one on a Krag, but I do understand that they come indexed and reamed (head space is set to the rim, so head spacing is not critical).  The location for the front sight is milled, and the holes are drilled for the rear sight (although I have heard that they are not drilled and tapped to the thread pitch of the original Krag screws).  They DO come "In The White", which means they have no finish.  You will have to have the front sight post installed.

You do have to un-solder the front sight base from your old barrel and re-solder it onto the Criterion (or buy a new one from S&S Firearms). The flat spot for that is milled identically to the issue barrel. The rest is easy-peasy, but note the thread differences in the rear sight holes as stated above.

So, if the screw threads are different, what is the solution?  Are the correct screws available and if so from what source?  Thanks for all the good info by the way.
Keith

I used Stainless Steel Hex Socket Screwsavailable at the hardware store. Put one in my drill and filed the sides down to fit the front socket of the 1901 sight. Quite handsome - I am not trying to fool anybody that I have an all-original piece. Used a small MAPP-Oxygen torch to solder an original front sight base on using silver solder and a jig from Brownells and following their simple instructions (layer of solder on barrel, layer of solder on base, cool, put together and heat) - it took every bit of skill I had and I have been fiddling with that torch for 25 years. As far as melting the armory solder - good luck - I think the steel would melt first! I sacrificed the donor barrel's tip and cut underneath the base and filed the solder off (the barrel was a drilled-out mess). Good luck!

It may be useful to note that the original front sight bases were brazed, not soldered, and also dovetailed. Brazing alloy will melt well before steel does, but it takes plenty of heat.

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Original brazed front sight base. Note dovetail.

I wonder if that was SOP throughout the production life of the Krag. Two sight bases I had cause to remove over the years were simply soft soldered on and popped right off with heat from a propane torch. Also, they weren't dovetails, but rather a simple flat milled into the barrel on which the sight base sits square. The original carbine barrel I have sitting in front of me right now is like that, and it's one I popped the sight base off of a couple weeks ago with propane, the remaining solder is definitely lead based- it scrapes off with a dull pocket knife. (It's going onto my Krag sporter I'm building.) I have no reason to believe it had ever been messed with.

Parashooter has pictured the correct Krag front sight base as mounted and brazed by Springfield Arsenal.  Any base that is soft soldered on is not a Springfield job.

I just received the rifle barrel I ordered from Numrich Gun Parts.  It comes blued with the front sight base and blade installed, and two screws already fit for the rear sight base.  Appears to be very nicely made.  Front sight height exactly the same as on my gun.  Sending it to my gunsmith to be installed.  Will give you a full range report as soon as I get it back.
Keith

I've heard a couple horror stories about barrels from Numrich...  Let us know if all is well. 

David Sams is my gunsmith and meticulous doesn't even begin to describe his approach.  If there are any problems he won't proceed with the work.  I slugged the barrel and it came out .310" - .311, so I'll still have to use 303 British bullets.  But since I'm loading 303 and 7.65 Argentine as well, logistically it's not an issue.  The bore is nice and straight, the blue is deep and even and the front sight is very nicely installed.  And the rear sight holes are aligned with the front sight and the extractor cut.  Now, if the barrel times properly when tight, it should produce good accuracy, assuming of course the chamber is properly cut.  Lots to think about, but that's why I want Sams to do the work.  He has already rebarreled his own Krag so this is familiar to him.  Finally, I still have the Criterion barrel on order from CMP and will have David set that one up for installation as well.  That way if the Numrich barrel doesn't perform as expected, the Criterion can be used.

Well, at long last I've received my Criterion barrel from CMP.  Drilled for rear sight and dovetailed for front sight base, in the white and short chambered.  Sent to my gunsmith for him to decide which gets installed, the one I received from Numrich or this one.  The Numrich came ready to install with front base and blade installed, but with a .311" bore.  No problem really since I reload for 7.65X53mm and 303 British.  I'll let you all know what gets installed and how it shoots.

Keith Herrington wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:39pm:

. . . in the white and short chambered. . .

Statements like this (which also appears on the Criterion website) always make me wonder exactly how one produces a "short chambered" Krag barrel since the breech end is flat (except the extractor mortise) and the cartridge is a rimmed design. Can someone please explain precisely which dimension is "short" on these barrels?
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I should know better than to get into such a technical point with you (grin) but I'm guessing it is not the "what" that is at issue (simple enough to just not run the reamer in quite far enough) but the "why". I imagine it is a bit of added "fluff" to make their product seem superior, by letting their customer set it up as tight as possible. Just because a (bottle-necked) case is supposed to headspace on the rim doesn't mean it cannot actually be stopped at the neck first. Am just talking simple physical fit here, not the dynamics of whether such would be "good" or "bad", but I certainly agree with you that it is an odd tactic. Another thought - do they sell any '06 or .308 barrels? Perhaps they cloned the text and did not notice the non-sequitor?

Since the Criterion barrel is at hand but not yet installed, the issue of the short chamber could be tested. Just try to put a functioning dummy cartridge into the barrel.  If it enters all the way to the rim, the barrel is not short chambered.

I understand the technical reasons for producing short-chambered barrels. But, in our society, short chambering is probably the equivalent of putting a 2-foot long cord on an electrical appliance. 

Dick Hosmer wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

. . . I'm guessing it is not the "what" that is at issue (simple enough to just not run the reamer in quite far enough) but the "why".

You're right as usual. I was tempted to write "how/why . . . " instead of "how one produces a "short chambered" Krag barrel". Short chambering a Krag barrel just doesn't make sense considering that the SAAMI minimum .30/40 cartridge is some .020" shorter head-shoulder than the minimum chamber and that's not where a rimmed design establishes headspace anyway.

I like reincarnated's approach and am curious to learn if the uninstalled Criterion barrel will accept a new .30/40 case up to the rim.

Eric,

I have a Criterion barrel still in the shipping tube somewhere up in the rafters of the shop.  At some point I will go foraging for it, and let you know .....  Don't hold your breath, tho ... moving kinda slow these days.   :)

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Bob, great to see you back - "movin kinda slow" sure beats the alternative!

Best wishes,

Dick

Thanks, Dick. 

Picture is a new Criterion 30" barrel with a new, never-been-fired R-P case dropped into the chamber.  It drops easily to the rim, so you don;t need no stinkin' reamer to install a Criterion barrel.   Note that the extractor groove is already milled, and the sight screw holes are drilled (albeit not the correct size) ... so I hope those folks at Criterion got the timing of the breech threads right!!!

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Resp'y,
Bob S.

That pretty much settles the question. Thanks, Bob!

Bob,
Got a loaded 220 Rn., how does that fit? I just saw posted some where a similar thread, (I think related to carbine/sporter) and some one suggested to ream the chamber for 150's or 180's. Could the throat (?) be left short for final fit?

Ned,

I have no idea what Criterion uses for a reamer, but I'll bet dollars to Navy beans that it is a one-piece and has a throater for the 220 grain service load.  Just like the 6.5 Sweed ... if you buy a reamer from Clymer, you're stuck with that damned long throat for the old 160 grain RN service load, even if you all you want to shoot is 139 grain Lapua BT.  I learned that the hard way.

I will pull the barrel back out of the rafters and take some Stoney Point readings of the throat.  Yes, I have the special case for 30-40, and I'm pretty certain I have a small stash of Hornady 220 grain SP's from about 45 years ago.

Based on that quick test with the empty case, I would not run a finish reamer into the chamber for any reason.  If it turns out that the throat is shorter than desired (doubtful), a separate throater would be in order.  I did this with one of my K31's and it made a world of difference.  (Shhhh. Don't tell anyone on the Swiss boards.  I'll be keelhauled!) 

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Thanks Bob, sorry to make you go digging again!! Just curious how they can call the barrels short chambered, unless they have made changes lately. You know to avoid digging the barrel out of the rafters again you could just send it ti me to "hold on to"! ;D

Ned,

No problem, this has piqued my curiosity.

And the answer is .....

This is a Hornady 220 grain SP gently pushed to the lands of the new Criterion 30" barrel with a Stoney Point gauge .  This indicates that I would be able to load "long" without doing a thing to the throat.

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It would be nice to compare with an "as new" Springfield barrel.   The closest thing I have without digging through several safes is No. 8828, an 1892 with modifications of 1896.   The bore and throat look "as new" to my naked and aging eyes.  Here is that same Hornady 220 grain SP pushed gently to the lands in No.8828:

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The throat is slightly longer.  How many rounds has been put through this tube is unknown to me, but probably not many, at least not in Whistler-Aspinwal days.  Contemporary powders had high nitroglycerin content and would "eat" throats much more rapidly than we modernfolk are used to.   I purchased this rifle some years ago from a long-ago retired Air Corps officer.  I didn't quiz him about his use of it.  The interesting things about this particular rifle are the M1901 sight with large aperture, handguard and front sight that look like they "belong", not like they were added some long time after the rifle left government ownership, it came with an original (not reprpo) muzzle cover, and a nice 1942-dated Boyt M1907 sling, obvously used, but not abused and well cared for.  The groove diameter of this barrel is .3094".

Resp'y,
Bob S.

The interesting thing is, I asked someone at Criterion at one point last year, and I seem to recall being told that they were sold "finish reamed" and ready to fire after installation because there is no headspace issue.  Obviously a Garand must be reamed and timed with the bolt to headspace properly... but as everyone has already stated, the Krag headspaces on the rim. 

On a side note, I find it interesting that Criterion Krag barrels come "in the white" while Garand barrels come parkerized.

P.S.  The Criterion barrel that I have was purchased from CMP about two years ago.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

The likely explanation for the erroneous Criterion website copy is that it was written by some geek who knew squat about either Krags or their barrels. Poor Webfoot just assumed they would be chambered like their .30/06 barrels.

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30-40 Krag

Original .30-40 Krag contour in rifle length (30") and carbine length (22"). These barrels have the receiver threads cut and timed. Holes are drilled and tapped for the rear sight (8-32). Both the extractor cut milled and front dovetail are milled. Furnished in the white, these barrels are short chambered and ready to be installed by a qualified gunsmith.

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