Beachbumbob has recently acquired a Model 1896 Krag.  He has reported that cartridges are hanging up and not feeding correctly.  He was suspecting a problem with the magazine-door/follower spring.  Bob posted a picture of his side-plate which has a rough interior.  I suspect his side-plate may be a Model 1898 plate that someone thinned down to serve as a replacement for the 1896 plate (which has a thinner tenon).  I do not have a Model 1896 Krag side-plate to compare.  However, looking at my references, it appears both 1896 and 1898 Krag side-plates should have a very sharp bottom edge.  Bob's side-plate has a very blunt lower edge.  This would suggest his plate was ground on the inside to thin the tenon at the front of the plate, which inserts into a mortise, machined into the receiver.  The unusual 'grind marks', on the inside of his side-plate, are probably an attempt to restore necessary clearance.

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A couple of 1898 side-plates showing the sharp lower edge and the smooth interior finish.

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FWIW, I've never seen a sideplate - early or late - that looked anything like his. Cannot tell if it is a shadow, but the feed track scratches certainly take a jog (and maybe a dip?) at one point. Someone appears to have dug around in there, possibly in an attempt to feed a short bullet, or even maybe blanks? I'm guessing the problem will go away with a smooth plate - the spring only provides in-line pressure - the up-over-and-in-swoopty-do is dependent on smooth, properly shaped surfaces.

That is not a shadow.  It has been ground as you said.  I've tried to get an end on picture of both the 98 and 96 sideplate, but I have been letdown by either technology or technique so far (possibly both).

I cannot (and will not) say that this wasn't a ceremonial rifle.  The bore is shiny dark with some pitting in it.  But not nearly as bad pitting as some known ceremonial rifles I've seen.  And I've had rifles that were more pitted than this that shot well - so if the throat isn't burnt out I have high hopes.  The muzzle measures just over 4 on the gauge I use for my Garands.  Not sure if this is a proper measurement device for Krags but .300 diameter is .300 diameter right?

I am also fairly confident, given the evidence and your expertise, that this is a 98 sideplate someone has worked over.  In a quick look, didn't see anyone advertising a 96 sideplate and for something this particular, wouldn't trust just any part supplier.  Ideas?

I also checked the spring pressure of one of my 98s with the sideplate removed.  An 'inginiir' would say that the 96 is about 2 or 3 smidgens less than the 98 'but close enough for govmint work'.

As always - thanks!

Beachbumbob:  If your magazine-door ('gate') functions properly, it's a good sign the follower spring is good.
   J. DeChristopher,   (You need to Login, (215)297-8103, lists 1894-96 and 1896 side-plates, at $85 and $95, respectively.  Also, there are two gentlemen, listed in the KCA Classifieds, who sell parts. 

Drug the other 2 of my 1898s (1 rifle, 1 carfle) out of the back of the safe since they were due for their annual BLO bath.  I had to examine both the sideplates since I had them out.  Surprisingly enough, none of them would feed the 2nd round when mounted on the 1896.

Also mic'd them and all were pretty much the same. But I didn't have any doubts the information already received wasn't right.  But what else do you do when you're trying to learn?  Where exactly is the 96 sideplate thinner than the 98 sideplate?

Surprisingly, the spring tension on these two was greater than on the 96 and the first 98 rifle I compared it to.

Thanks.....

Beachbumbob:  I do not have a Model 1896 Krag or an 1896 side-plate, in my collection, to allow parts comparison.  In "The Krag Rifle Story", by Franklin B. Mallory, he states the tenon thickness increased .02" on the 1898 side-plate.  (The tenon is the tongue, on the front edge of the side-plate, which inserts into the front of the left side receiver opening).  On page 203, Mallory shows side views of 1892 and 1892 side-plates.  There seem to be several subtle differences in shape.  It is surprising if an unaltered 1898 plate will fit on your 1896 receiver.  It should bind and fail to fit close against the action with out being forced.  Is it possible some metal was removed from the inner receiver wall where the tenon 'hooks'?

Wouldn't feed the second round.  Do they pop up to proper position?  We're going to be talking different rifles, but one of my 92/96 rifles that has a 96 sideplate will occasionally hang up with cases that are neck sized only.  Guess there's just enough of a difference in the shoulder diameter, and the thickness of the sideplate to wedge them between receiver and sideplate.  Two cures for mine.  Put a 92 sideplate on, or full length size cases that will be used for rapid fire.

Madsenshooter:  That is with factory new ammo that it will not push the 2nd round into position to be picked up when you push the bolt forward.  The 2nd and subsequent rounds seem to hang up 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch shy of where they need to be.  I've got both 180 RN and 150 Spitzer and both do the same thing.  Like you I segregate ammo to a particular rifle and only neck size them.  A trick I learned years ago for the .303 Enfield that I apply universally now to all but stuff I reload for semi's.

Butlersranger:  I checked last night and the finish on both sides of the area where the side plate fits certainly looks like the quality work we've come to expect from the Springfield craftsmen who built these rifles, unlike the half-fast work already noted on the inside of the side plate in question.

If it were easy, it wouldn't be nearly as much fun eh?

Well, not a good guess on my part then.  On to another thing I've ran into.  If you have a 98 follower in there, it might hang up on the top of the magazine well.  Actually any follower might hang up depending on the bend someone might have put on the arbor, the post on the front end.

I haven't really looked at that yet, but I guess I will.  I've decided to wait until this weekend before I tear into the Magazine doors.  Want to be able to attack it first thing in the morning after coffee so I'll be ready for anything that might come from venturing into new territory.

Butlersranger and Dick were kind enough to post good instructions and advice on how to disassemble it.

Thanks,

Bob

Bob, I've been following this thread and decided to take a closer look at one of my '98 Krag sporters to see how it feeds.  I laid my rifle on its left side and opened the magazine door.  I inserted 4 cartridges and put just a bit of finger pressure on the last catridge while cycling the bolt.  They all picked up and fed smoothly.
My point is that by using gentle finger pressure if there was a hang-up I'd be able to see and feel where it's happening.  Will yours feed if only using finger pressure instead of closing the magazine door?  If not, you might be able to find the rub.  If they do feed, there could be follower issues here.
By the way, mine is able to feed 150gr SP Spitzers.
One more thing, from reading your earlier thread I couldn't tell if you ended up actually removing your cut-off lever and cleaning any gunk out of the hole.  Any burr or hardened grease in that area could be causing the cartridge to hesitate.

Since you're taking it apart Bob, I just played musical carrier/follower in a 96 action I have.  Only two out of 5 that I tried would work without binding on the top of the magazine.  These were both 92/96 carrier/followers and the arbor on them is approx 1.045" tall.  The other three are 98 followers, and their arbors are 1.007" tall.  Oddly, out of these three, one of them has a carrier that lacks the curl of a 98 carrier.  Maybe an early 98 carrier.  5MF has some photos that illustrate the differences in the carrier/follower assemblies.  I used to have it, but not no more and I'm not looking for it elsewhere.

Gunboat57:  I have not been able to get around to disassembling the cutoff.  That will be another project for the weekend when the weatherman 'assures' me we'll have nice and warm weather that will allow me to spend quality time out in the garage.  We had some this last weekend but the dog demanded we go downtown, drink coffee and watch the tourists from up north run around half dressed.  That will be done along with Magazine cover removal and clean up.

Madsenshooter:  Interesting that the longer of the followers bind and not the shorter of them.  Logic (not always applicable to all things mechanical) would tend to be the opposite of the results you had.

Thanks again for ALL the help and effort in helping me solve my problem.

I apologize, but I've apparently lost track of something here. Perhaps I'm just confusing "disassembling" with "removal". Is there a cutoff in the rifle now? Is it the correct one? Is it fully operable, or somehow damaged?

My money is still on the bum side-plate, but the cutoff needs to be right, too. I'm further guessing the whole follower/spring thing will turn out to be a red herring. It'll be fun to find out, eventually.

U.S. Model 1896 and Model 1898 Krag actions differ from each other.  Most of their component parts, although similar in appearance, differ and are not intended to interchange.  A Krag, accepted into U.S. service, functioned correctly when it left Springfield.  IMHO, Beachbumbob's Model 1896 Krag probably has some 1898 parts (side-plate and possibly follower & arm) 'contaminating it'.  I'd start the 'problem solving' by replacing the buggered up side-plate with a known 1896 plate.  Detailed pictures of his follower, in relation to side wall opening, and of magazine gate, would help identify whether parts are correct.
  (Attached photo shows some detail of 1898 action.  Cut-off tip is visible at upper right corner of receiver wall opening.  This is the position that allows cartridges to feed.  Follower is 1898 type).

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No need for an apology, Dick.  We've been all over the map in this thread.  It was suggested that I disassemble and clean the cut off.  And judging by the amount of force necessary to move it, it is certainly not a bad suggestion.  It takes an enormous effort to move it.  I don't doubt that there is some crud involved in it somewhere.  I know it's not supposed to move when the wind blows, but it should be a move easier than it does now.

And for your confusion with terms, that's probably my fault.  Sometimes I use remove and disassemble interchangeably. 

I am also sure that the side-plate is part of the problem; hopefully the entire problem.  I just hope this isn't going to be one of those fix this and now that doesn't work well evolutions.

I've only owned Krags for the last year or so with the exception of one I had for a month or so when I was a teen.  I am getting into the unknown here with this Model 96 since I've not disassembled the 98s I have any further than was necessary to ensure they were safe to shoot.  They came to me working as advertised.

I had occasion to dismantly my 1896 today to take handguard measurements,and took the opportunity to pull the side plate and take images.  Here they are.  Hope they contribute to the resolution to the problem.

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I think it's more likely to be the carrier/follower assembly.  I have put a 98 assembly in one of my 92/96s trying to improve feeding of HPBT match bullets and it took a bit of tweaking to get it away from binding on the top of the magazine.  In the end, I went back to the original assembly before Camp Perry.   I might have to mess with the 98 assembly again if I want to get some flat nosed 220gr cast bullets to feed.  :D

Well I wasn't feeling good today and since it was Friday before a 3 day weekend, shut the office down early.  I did feel well enough to work on the Krag inside and managed to remove the cutoff and clean it out.  Also determined that there was some amount of dried crud on the ejector and cleaned that off. 

It's a good news/bad news thing.  It will now feed the rounds 1-4 reliably but won't push #5 up to where it will feed.  And it is consistent with that every time.  I'm sure that the proper side-plate should go a long way to solving that.

Here's a photo.  Maybe someone will see something in it that will help.  For what it's worth, it will feed both Round Nose and Spitzers equally well.

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Here's a different angle.  Couldn't figure out multiple attachments and it's late and I'm still not feeling perky.

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Could just be your spring - too weak to pop the last one up?

There has been some mention of whether or not I've got the right follower.  Here are 3 shots of mine.  I hope this will help those more knowledgeable than me.

As always Thanks!

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Bob, here are a couple pics of what my follower looks like after the last round has fed.  Does your follower look like mine, especially how far it has moved to the left side of the rifle?

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Another question.  Your cutoff lever allows cartridges to feed when in the down position.  Anything keeping the lever from going fully down?  Possibly hitting the wood of the stock? 

Looks to be the right carrier/follower assembly bob, the 98 assembly had more of a curl to the carrier, though I did note one I had one must've been an early 98.  The carrier is the forepart of the assembly, the follower the tail part.  At the failing to feed point you've pictured, the "point" of the carrier that juts into the middle of the follower should push that round up onto the top of the follower.  Your rough sideplate, or a weak spring might be the cause of it not doing so.  We're making progress. ;)

Here are some pictures of the follower/carrier when empty.  I'll trust your judgment about if it's close enough to yours. 

And yes, Madsenshooter, we are making progress.  I've gone from a single shot to a 4 shot repeater thanks to everyone's help.  I'm sure the sideplate has something to contribute to the problem.  No internal part of a rifle as rough as that could help the operation of the firearm.

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The point appears to be sticking out like it should Bob.  It's what lifts the last cartridge up onto the follower and thus into position to feed.  The rim would be the most likely thing to snag on your rough sideplate, try smoothing the sideplate at the rear with some emery cloth, or get another one.  A light coat of oil on the follower's surface might help too.

I was going to say smoothing out the side plate would help.  If getting the correct plate is out of the question, then I would take some emery cloth as Madsenshooter said, and smooth out those ridges.  Then oil everything up really good!

Can you observe ANY difference in the appearance/location/orientation of the last round when in feed position, as opposed to any of the preceding cartridges in exactly the same place? Is the last round any more/less subject to wiggling with a finger? Is it more/less "loose" than any other? Some difference should be expected, as it is "held" differently than any other.

Perhaps a couple of carefully posed pictures? Speaking of which - some of the foregoing while very clear, do exhibit some pretty serious distortion - might be better to back the camera off a bit and then crop/enlarge the image.