Good day,

I am new to this site and thought you could help me in my search for more historical background on the rifle I just purchased. I just picked up an early 3 digit 92' Krag that was updated to the 96' configuration other than the hand guard. The serial number is 309 and I was wondering if anyone could tell me where this weapon may have been issued? I have a friend that was thinking it may have been a Ft. Spokane or Ft. Sherman gun. Any background on this rifle would be much appreciated. I'm absolutely in love with this rifle and am excited to learn more on its history. Cheers!

A friend of mine was able to trace a very close serial number of 314 to the 17th Infantry and was issued on 5/15/1897. From my research it looks like the headquarters would have been in Fort Totten in Bayside New York up until May 24th 1897. Not sure if serial number 309 would have went to the same spot as 314 but any help beyond this would be greatly appreciated.

Good morning.  Welcome to the forum, and to the wonderful world of Krags!  Beware, Krags are addicting, and tend to multiply...

Congratulations on your Krag.  Please post some pictures so we can see it and give helpful advice.  You'll have to reduce your file size to post the pics, so please be aware of that.  Not all Krags show up in the records, and Krags were not assembled in sequential order (parts were placed in bins on the assembly line), so 314 and 309 may not have wound up in the same place.  Also, most Krags underwent at least one arsenal rebuild or upgrade in it's life, so being updated to 1896 configuration is not uncommon.  That said, sounds like you have a great rifle there...

Paul

Thank you very much for the kind welcome Paul! I'm excited to be a part of this forum. The multiplying has already begun as this is my second Krag! :) My other rifle is an 1898 Rifle from 1901 with the 1901 rear sight. My new rifle is currently on its way from Georgia and as soon as I get it I will post some more detailed photos. In the interim I will see if I can pull some photos from the original listing. Cheers

Here are some photos from the listing.

---

Photos continued...

---

Looks amazing!  Do you know if it has the cleaning rod channel filled in under the barrel?  Should be able to spot the filler wood if it does.

I asked the manager of the business about 100 questions on the rifle and that was one of them. He looked at the end of the stock for me and I'm not sure he knew what he was looking for. I had told him to look for wood filler and a slight difference in color from a plugged hole. That has been my only concern on the rifle as the date on the left wrist of the stock is not present. So Im a little worried it may not be the original plugged 92 stock. Though I am feeling pretty good about it because it still has the early hand guard and the wood coloration matchs well. Thanks for the kind words about the rifle as well :)

If it's a field replacement stock, it's more likely than not that it won't have a cartouche or proof mark (my 98 doesn't either). 

Jeremy - That is a very nice looking Krag and "Welcome!" to the KCA Forum.

I believe your Krag's Stock is Armory replaced, because of the 're-curve' of the Butt-Plate 'toe' and the shape of your Stock's Comb and Wrist area. (The original stock would have had a Flat Butt-Plate without a 'Trap' and a Thin Wrist).

Your Bolt has a model 1892 Bolt-Sleeve & safety with the 'thread like' ribs at the rear of the sleeve. You have the up-dated extractor with its 'hold open' pin, the extractor is held on by a rivet (rather than a screw), your receiver is notched for the 'hold open' pin.

You have a very nice early Krag that was legitimately updated.

Looks like a "thin wrist" stock to me. Key feature is that the wrist gets visibly thinner from tang to comb, unlike later versions with more constant circumference. This causes the comb nose to appear significantly higher.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

I have a dim recollection that the 1896 alterations included re-shaping the butt for the curved-toe plate. Wrong?

Wow! Thanks for the replies guys. These were all the pics I had to go off of too and I was thinking it looked like a "thin wrist" to me as well. But these photos are really not very high quality. That is great news about the Bolt! Are we allowed to discuss what I paid for it in this forum based on rules? I am kind of curious what you guys would think of what I paid for it?

The only proof on the stock is the circle P on the underside of the wrist.

'Parashooter' is correct about the wrist being thin.

(The Stock is also likely to have a filled clearing-rod channel).

This is probably the last 'type' of 'thin-wrist stock' with storage for a three section cleaning-rod in the Butt.

It appears there is a 'circle P' function proof mark on the bottom of the wrist. (IIRC - This suggests Armory rather than Field replacement. Since this Krag had already been 'Accepted' earlier, the Armory would not have put an 'acceptance cartouche' on a replacement stock, but, did check and mark it for function proof).

(I suspect the 'curved butt-plate Stock' must be a later replacement, given the rifle's very early serial number).

Definitely a Krag with a neat story!

Thank you butlersrangers! I saw this rifle and was drawn to it immediately. I did not have any intention of buying another Krag right now but using my splendid negotiating powers I was able to talk them down from $2,499 to $1690. Thoughts on $1,690 for this rifle?

Civil discussion of prices is always welcome!

You bought a very nice Krag and it is probably worth that amount.

FWIW - I am a 'bottom feeder' and get the most fun out of $300-500 guns.

Thank you Ned for the heads up. Being new I didn't want to violate any rules and or upset anyone. I have a bit of a savior complex, lol. When I buy the rough ones or sporterized ones I always end up spending a fortune on trying to get them back to full military! LOL. Thanks for the kind words butler.

Jeremy T Garner wrote on Apr 27^th, 2016 at 11:58pm:

. . .Thoughts on $1,690 for this rifle?

Ouch!?

Bummer, I thought it worth that. It's the 3rd lowest serial number for sale I've ever seen. A few books I have for collecting put an excellent gun at close to $1800. What would you value it at?

Oh well I got a great buy on my 1898 rifle for 600 out the door in full military with a sling. I can't complain too much. I under paid for one and over paid for one lol! It all evens out I suppose

A Model '92 in original condition can be a high-value item. One that's had the '96 alterations generates about the same market interest as a common Model '96. A low serial is cool, but few buyers will pay more.

Just my opinion. If you're happy with the purchase, that's all you need!

Agreed.  In the end, a Krag is always worth what someone is willing to pay.  You have a beautiful low-numbered Krag there... now go get ready to shoot it in the Roosevelt Match!

In my opinion, you did not overpay for a low three-digit specimen. That's a very nice rifle, even if altered. Now, you didn't get a steal, either, as that is pretty much full current high-retail, and you were wise to hammer the seller as $2499 would have been too much!

Will be interested to see if the stock has a rod channel filler (I'm betting it will) but the flat butt with no trap will only be found on unaltered stocks. The late 1892s (like my 20196, which was never altered) had the curved plate from new, but no trap. This "intermediate" butt-plate style (also used on the fabled Cadet rifles) is not often seen.

Thank you guys! And thank you Mr. Hosmer. A friend of mine named Brock who is both on this site and jouster speaks very highly of you! I knew I didn't steal it by any means lol! But 2499 was insane and they had sat on the rifle for nearly 2 years and for some reason that early serial number and how clean the rifle was made me want it pretty badly. As my same friend Brock says, "I didn't overpay...I bought too early" ;)

Fed Ex had tried to deliver my rifle yesterday but my wife was out shopping for our 4 month old and I was at work. Should have a few more additional photos on Monday.

Looking forward to them!  By the way, I sent you an email on the Roosevelt Match.

I just read that actually! I spent most of the day sorting through a 500 plus firearm collection so I've been a little busy. I really want to attend! I've actually began some preliminary load development for it as well. Any tips on what worked well for your rifles? I really want to use a 220 gr projectile. Thoughts on a cast lead bullet instead of the Hornady 220gr SP? I really am wanting to create something as close to the original .30 Army loading. Unless of course you have a recommendation that would perform better at longer distances?

Lol, well I answered my own query by reading in the reloading section of the forum! Go figure... I must have ate too many paint chips as a kid ;) I actually also saw your review on Midway in regards to it as well.  I will follow your loading of the Hornady 220 RN SP with 40gr of IMR 4350 (CCI Magnum primer). I considered the Sierra Pro Hunter as well based on the G1 BC being marginally better by a mere .010 (.310 to .300). However based on your success with that load I will be using it as well now. What to you set the Overall length to 3.00? I've seen guys go anywhere from 3.00 to 3.08 depending on the loading manual.

If you use the Hornady 220 gr RN (or the Sierra for that matter), set the bullet depth to the cannelure and you'll have the proper standard length.  Be sure to trim your brass to the correct length (I use a LEE 30-40 Krag case length trimmer here... pretty much fool proof). 

Just a word though about trying to duplicate other's successes... not all Krags like the same food.  The standard 220 gr RN/40.0 grains of 4350 is the go-to round... but many other shooters have great success with other loads.  If the standard load works well for you, then stick with it, but you may find that your Krag likes a different bullet than mine, and that's ok too!  Most of us find success by trial and error with our Krags.  I've tried many different rounds in my 98, but ultimately, I'm stubborn... and I DO like shooting the 220 because it does work well for me.  LOL

As far as cast goes, there are others that can speak volumes in that regards.  I do shoot cast out of my cutoff sporter, and I get incredible results, but the bullets are actually provided to me by Bob (Madsenshooter), who got me started shooting cast.  I use that Krag for benchrest Cast Boolit matches.  Bob is a great source of info for Cast shooting!

I look forward to shooting with you this summer, and I'll look for your email and provide you more info on the match there.

Paul

Rifle has arrived! Boy it is even cleaner than I was expecting! The muzzle and bore are absolutely excellent and still bright! Downside is I do not see a plugged cleaning rod channel.

---

Given that it has the proof mark but no cartouche (making an assumption here), and no filled channel on the bottom of the stock under the barrel, I would guess that it has an arsenal-replaced stock.  But it is a beautiful Krag!!!  I can't wait to see it at the Roosevelt this summer...  I bet it shoots as sweet as it looks.

I actually ended up picking up another 1898 rifle so I will be shooting all three this weekend to ascertain accuracy potential. As much as I would love to shoot the match with the 92/96 I really think I am better with the 1901 sight on both of my 98's. I prefer the 1901 sight considerably more than that of the 96'. I actually like the 1901 sight the best of all them as a personal choice. However I will bring it with me to the match as a backup rifle :)

Upon further investigation I do believe the cleaning rod channel to have been filled because in direct light on the bottom of the stock you can clearly see a discoloration in the wood that leaves a lighter colored outline of where a channel for the cleaning rod would have been. Not sure if this changes much of anything but while i was installing an original 2 piece 1887 sling I purchased for the rifle is when I noticed it clear as day. I also found the cleanest early 1895 marked bayonet I've ever seen for it as well. Pictures to come.

BAYONET PHOTOS

---

Thanks for a great thread.  If anyone is tracking I am restoring US model 1892 rifle SN: 303.  Has your SN: 309 have serial numbers on the internal parts like the bolt, gate, cover follower, etc?

Thanks,

Curt

Yes, it has a filled channel.  I could see the wooden pins in his first photos.