Unfortunately that thread I had going with pictures of different Krags got lost. There was some really good advice in there from some of you that I kept coming back to review as I looked at different Krags. Now I've come down to deciding between two Krags; an 1898 Rifle and 1899 Carbine. Neither is perfect but that's why they fall into my price range; either can be had in the $600-700 range.

Rifle: Swollen stock, bore isn't great, some rust on the barrel. Otherwise original and in good condition. What will it take to clean this up, and what is it worth?

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login


Carbine: Finish on barrel/receiver was removed, bore is 60%, rear sight is slightly bent, front sight is filed down, slight cut near muzzle. Stock is original carbine, hasn't been cut down, and is verified to shoot by the seller.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login


So what's the general consensus? I have more pics but ran out of text.

Marcus99:  I don't know what 60% bore means.  Both of these candidates appear to have serious rust damage to their bores.  They both have rust damage and pitting on the external surfaces.  I think a Rifle is what you most want.  But, that pictured Fla. rifle probably has some deep pits under those 'crusted' areas.  It has been my practice to always buy rifles with really good bores.  Dark and pitted bores never clean up.  Even if they shoot well, you waste time and supplies trying to get them clean.  My advice is to wait, get some books, save money and keep shopping.  Decide what you really want.  (Of the two, I'd lean toward the Carbine.  But this is because I like Carbine length Krags and the one you are looking at appears to have a nice stock.  If that one were mine, I'd consider a refinish of the metal...Gasp!).

Decisions, decisions!  What do you intend to do with your new-to-you Krag?  Go hunting?  Hang it on the wall?  Put it in the gun safe?  Shoot jacketed ammunition, commercial or reloads?  Shoot cast bullets?  Undertake a restoration project?

Before you decide, try the trigger pull on both.  That may be a deciding factor.

For hunting or for a shooter, especially with cast bullets, I would favor the carbine.  If you intend to shoot jacketed bullets, maybe in some sort of "old warhorses" organization, the rifle might be best.

What is the cause or reason for the cut on the carbine's muzzle?

Butlerrangers
I don't know what 60% bore means either  ::), that's what the seller told me at which point I requested those pictures. I assume it means 60% is left of what was there when it was 100% brand new.

I know it is hard to tell from some of those pictures, but where are you seeing rust on the Carbine? This could well be ignorance on my part, but I thought that "coloring" on the barrel of the carbine was lack of finish and dirt. Obviously on the other hand the rifle has rust on the barrel and presumably the bore, no argument there, but I was wondering if that is correctable. Again I have no experience with older guns needing a serious cleanup so I'm sorry if this is well known stuff.

I did a lot of calling around and looking on about 5 different auction sites as well as local listings. There are Krags up here in the Northeast but nearly all are sporterized, and even then the prices are high $600 and up. I did come across originals, but those were $900 and up, heck most were over $1000. Maybe the market for Krags has changed, I dunno, but I'm just not seeing current (or even past sold) Krags that go for what I can afford to swing right now. Even if I had $1000 to throw into this, I couldn't justify spending that on a Krag despite the fact I think they are really neat guns. I gotta draw the line somewhere, ya know.

I do like that rifle, but that rust makes me really nervous. The dealer has been straightforward and provided many pictures but I'm still concerned that it may not function or something could turn out wrong. Meanwhile the Carbine has some finish removed and other minor issue's but otherwise it isn't cut down (barrel or stock) and I was assured by the seller that it shoots well.

waterman

No hunting or competition, purely fun at the range. It'll make it to the range somewhat frequently (once a month maybe), so no safe queen, everything I own I shoot. I reload for my handguns and use hardcast lead, if I could do the same with the Krag I'd be very happy, which leads me to ask, where can I get 220gr .308 round nose hardcast lead bullets for reloading .30-40 krag (I can't cast my own right now, need to buy). So yes, I'd want a shooter that I can use lead bullets in, why is the carbine better for that?

I can't see either in person, they're on opposite sides of the country haha. The seller of the carbine doesn't know why the cut is there but speculates someone was going to cut it down and then changed their mind.

I'd be lost without the advice here, these Krags are damn complicated guns.

Maybe someone started to file it to step-down the muzzle to take a bayonet and create a fake Constabulary Carbine?  It might be possible to have that blemish filled with a low temperature weld in a re-finish of the barrel (or machine a step in the barrel and silver-solder a collar over the step and restore the original contour.

Photos of the bore don't really tell you much, but here is my tuppence worth.  The rifle's bore looked dark. It's anybody's guess what you would find when you started scrubbing.  And it may well never clean up.  Barrels like that sometimes shoot jacketed bullets pretty well, but rarely do well with cast bullets.

The carbine bore looked as if it had just been worn but was otherwise smooth.  Those often shoot reasonably well with oversize cast bullets. 

For cast bullets, try to find .311 (or larger) hard-cast gas check bullets already lubricated for starters.  .308s are apt to be a disappointment.  Look for something like Lyman 311284 or 311299.

waterman wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 12:04am:

Photos of the bore don't really tell you much, but here is my tuppence worth.  The rifle's bore looked dark. It's anybody's guess what you would find when you started scrubbing.  And it may well never clean up.  Barrels like that sometimes shoot jacketed bullets pretty well, but rarely do well with cast bullets. The carbine bore looked as if it had just been worn but was otherwise smooth.  Those often shoot reasonably well with oversize cast bullets.  For cast bullets, try to find .311 (or larger) hard-cast gas check bullets already lubricated for starters.  .308s are apt to be a disappointment.  Look for something like Lyman 311284 or 311299.

Gotcha, so I want to compensate for the worn bore by using bullets sized a little larger. I will start looking for some online. How do Krags handle lead, I know some rifles (like AR's) don't like lead.

The other concern I had with the carbine is what the seller said about the sight, here is what he said verbatim;



I keep thinking I should go for the rifle, but that carbine keeps pulling me in   ;)

The internal dimensions of Krag barrels vary greatly.  More of them measure .310 to .312 than .308.  But some are as small as .306.  Phil Sharpe wrote about it back in the 1930s and said he had tried to learn why and came up with no answer.

Ultimately, you will need to slug the bore and measure the slug accurately.  Shoot gas check bullets of at least groove diameter or a bit more, a good lube and do not try to set any velocity records. 

But undersized hard lead bullets will predictably leave lead deposits in the bore.  They will let the hot gas by and that will cause the leading.

Never slugged a bore before; is that done by pushing an oversized lead bullet down the barrel with a wooden dowel and then measuring the diameter of the bullet with a caliper?

I spoke with the seller of the carbine for a good 20 minutes. The rifling is the weakest near the chamber and gets stronger out to the muzzle. I feel pretty good about buying from him, he even stated that if I'm not happy with the carbine he will take it back, and judging by his reputation on that forum I have a feeling he'd stand by that statement. As several people have said, that rifle with the iffy bore is a risk, maybe more risk than I am willing to take. So I'll sleep on it and make my decision tomorrow.

Either way, thank you all very much for your help, can't wait to get a Krag to the range and see why you guys are so obsessed with them  ;D

Marcus:  I believe there was a close-up of the 1899 Carbine Action in the pictures you first posted.  It looked to me like there was fine surface pitting.  I think this is also present on the close-ups of the 1901 Carbine rear sight.  These are not deep and not to be messed with.  They give a bit of patina and character.  Because it appears to be a correct carbine and has nice wood, the whole package is attractive.  Because the barrel finish is gone, if this carbine were mine, I would burnish just the barrel with scotch brite pad and fine steel wool.  I'd degrease the barrel surface and apply plum-brown and then several coats of cold-blue over the brown (to just the barrel) gently applying some heat with a propane torch with each coat.  Wipe the barrel with wet rags, dry, and then wipe with oil soaked rags.  I normally only preserve original finish.  But IMHO this carbine would be inhanced with a dull blue finish on the barrel (and it can always be removed).

butlersrangers wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 3:36am:

Marcus:  I believe there was a close-up of the 1899 Carbine Action in the pictures you first posted.  It looked to me like there was fine surface pitting.  I think this is also present on the close-ups of the 1901 Carbine rear sight.  These are not deep and not to be messed with.  They give a bit of patina and character.  Because it appears to be a correct carbine and has nice wood, the whole package is attractive.  Because the barrel finish is gone, if this carbine were mine, I would burnish just the barrel with scotch brite pad and fine steel wool.  I'd degrease the barrel surface and apply plum-brown and then several coats of cold-blue over the brown (to just the barrel) gently applying some heat with a propane torch with each coat.  Wipe the barrel with wet rags, dry, and then wipe with oil soaked rags.  I normally only preserve original finish.  But IMHO this carbine would be inhanced with a dull blue finish on the barrel (and it can always be removed).

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

That's all I have, Is that what patina is? Kind of looks like what my Steyr has (see the last pic), mostly though it's just worn finish but not a spot of rust. If I get the Carbine and I'm not happy with the finish I'd be willing to do a little refinishing project, although it would be a first for me. What grit of steel wool would you recommend, and would that remove the insignia and serial number printed on the receiver? Could I just get the dirt/rust/crud off with steel wool and then hold off with the refinishing?

Now you're getting me in trouble. I said the barrel only.  I'd leave the rest alone.

I've always been a long gun over carbines, but the inside of that barrel on the rifle would scare me away, certainly so for 700 smackers. I don't know what your criteria for a krag is, but there is cleaner options out there for a couple hundred more. 

I found this fella with a quick search, he has 3 krags for sell starting at 850.00

  (You need to Login




I spent $800 on the krag 98 rifle I bought a few weeks ago at a show in Connecticut, you can see it from link in my post in this forum, I wanted a clean condition shooter and no wasn't concern about a rifle being all original.

Lastchip wrote on Jan 31^st, 2012 at 12:50pm:

I've always been a long gun over carbines, but the inside of that barrel on the rifle would scare me away, certainly so for 700 smackers. I don't know what your criteria for a krag is, but there is cleaner options out there for a couple hundred more.  I found this fella with a quick search, he has 3 krags for sell starting at 850.00   (You need to Login I spent $800 on the krag 98 rifle I bought a few weeks ago at a show in Connecticut, you can see it from link in my post in this forum, I wanted a clean condition shooter and no wasn't concern about a rifle being all original.

I spoke with that seller because he is relatively close to my state. He stated prices higher than the listing, not sure if he was confused or what but he was looking for over $1k for his Krags.

I decided on the Carbine, hoping to get it within the next week or so, I will post up some better pictures once I do, although I don't expect to be shooting it right away. No dealers around here stock .30-40 krag, so I'll need to hold off until I gear up for rifle reloading. I already got the Joe Poyer book and I've been reading up on the Krag's history, very cool that it made it to China.

The carbine did look like the finer of the two choices, congratulations on your choice! Looking forward to your photos once your Krag comes home to roost.