I currently own a 1895/1896 Krag transition carbine that has an 1895 date and no model prefix and a serial number of #27771.  I was told it is rare and that there were only about 7,000 of these made.  It's in great condition.  The stock is stamped P.S.A.L N.Y.C.  I pulled up the blue book of gun values and based on their grading I thought it was between 95-98%.  Do you know how to confirm the grading?

---

Any one know what "P.S.A.L." stands for (Public School? American Legion?)?  I imagine the stock marking negatively effects the value of this nice carbine, unless it is a known Military Unit.  95-98% is too high a grading IMHO.  It appears there are some fine stock cracks.  There is minor surface rust on parts that should be bright.  There are a lot of areas not in photos, so impossible to assess.  How is the bore?  Are the sights correct?  Grading is tricky and has to take into account 'the whole package'.

Thanks for you feedback.  The bore and barrel has some wear but overall in good shape.  Please clarify are the sights correct?  They appear original and I have never fired it.

"P.S.A.L." NYC probably stands for Public School Athletic League.  NYC once allowed marksmanship competition in the public schools (gasp).  Your rear sight should have small "C" on right side of base.  Ladder increments should go up to 20 (2,000 yards) and have "C" above 19.  Similar looking model 1896 Rifle sight only goes up to 18.  Carbine rear sight is worth about $500 and often switched by profiteers!

The rear sight does go up to 20 and has the small c above the 19.

Great!  (An 1896 Carbine front sight blade is also marked with a small "C", which is usually hidden by the sight base.  The blade by itself should be approximately .265" tall).  'amb4jc', it looks like you have a legitimate and desirable Model 1896 carbine in very good condition.  The P.S.A.L. NYC stock marking gives it an interesting civilian provenance, once it left U.S. Military service.  Please post some more pictures of your carbine for our enjoyment.  Welcome to the KCA Forum!

It's a very nice, and correct, carbine, but not (IMHO) a 95-98% piece - there is a lot of wear on the grasping grooves (aka lightening cuts) in the forestock. When new, those edges were really sharp and crisp.

butlersrangers wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:58am:

Any one know what "P.S.A.L." stands for (Public School? American Legion?)?

I think it's "Paul Steinmayer's Arms Limited"...  How's that sound?

P.S.A.L. NYC = Paul Steinmayer Arms Luster - Not Your Carbine!

LOL Ok then!

PSAL?  About 4 years ago, I was doing some research for an article I wrote about Winder Muskets.  I came across 4 issues of the NY Times, about 1907 & 1908, in which they reported on something called "schoolboy matches" held as a part of a big sportsmans' show, maybe in Madison Square Garden.  The issues were 2 consecutive week-ends, maybe in April (?) for two consecutive years. 

The article reported the boy shooters names & scores and told which school they represented.  It explained that the match was shot with .22s on a range on the main floor.  After the match, the boys were allowed to go to the range in the basement, where they were allowed to shoot the Krag and the Maxim gun. 

When I read that, I could not imagine letting high school kids shoot a Krag with 220 grain military ammo in the basement.  I assumed that the kids were shooting GPRs.  Now I am not so sure.  There was an official gallery load for the Krag.  It was reportedly quite inaccurate, which led to the Stevens-Pope conversions, the subsequent Army political flap and the eventual production of GPRs in 1907-1908.  I assumed that with the GPR, the Krag gallery load was abandoned.  But surely enough could be found to let each kid bang away with a Krag a few times.  I further assumed that the kids were allowed to touch and play with the Maxim. After this, I am not so sure.  If allowed to do so, I would be first in line to fire a Krag gallery load in a Maxim.

My view is that PSAL-NYC may well increase the value of that particular carbine, if some supporting documents can be found.  There are still thousands of complete & authentic carbines and tens of thousands of similar infantry rifles.  But has anyone ever seen that stock marking before?

Thanks for all the information.  I am going to be selling it, but it appears the classified section is not used often on this site.  Is there a site for antique gun sales that you could recommend? 

Yes.    (You need to Login

What is the difference between grasping grooves and lightening cuts?

I always thought that lightening cuts were made on the interior of rifle stocks.

Thanks.  It is listed on Gunbroker per your suggestion.

I looked on Gunbroker & could not find it. Can someone please supply a link?

Auction # 398435559      (You need to Login

guess he was asking a bit much!!!!!

I had some correspondence with him. It was originally listed as a "rifle", so I suggested that he change it to "carbine" and also that, while it was certainly his business, the price was pretty steep. It's a nice piece, but the stock marking is really in your face.

Actually, I appreciated Dick's input and changed the listing to a "carbine" and lowered the price per his suggestion.  I researched and found one that sold on GunBroker on February 22, 2009 in "fine" condition for $2,750 and I believe mine is actually in better condition than the one that sold. As for the stock, Dick stated it was a "push" in terms of value I assume because some people might appreciate the history.

Yes it History is a factor you have to figure,  but those whom would want it for that are far and few between. We all are looking for as near mint as possible and while you is a very very nice one, the stock is a very big distractor. Carbine stock are almost impossible to find, and if you do you better have child to give in exchange. I have only seen one on the S & S site and has always been out of stock! I have a nice Model 96 Carbine but needs lots of T.L.C. to restore it and get a stock sees to be impossible at this point, not even thinking of a orginal rear site at this point.

As stated in beginning of post,  I know very little about Krag carbines.  I have no idea what you are saying.  Perhaps you are speaking over my head.  I just want to sell the carbine to someone at a fair price who will appreciate its history and enjoy it.  Dick seems very knowledgeable and from what he said I interpreted the stock and it's history is not a plus or minus.  I would accept any fair offer.  No one seems to be suggesting what it is worth, which is why I priced it according to the last one I could find sold that was a transition model of which only 7000 were made.

I believe these pages pertain to the carbine being discussed in the 'Protocol' thread today.  The carbine was interesting and got a lot of study last February.  I searched it out (and commented) to bring it up to page 1.