Hi all, I'm new here on this site. I have a 1897 Steyr built Krag and would like a little info on it, more specifically what cartridge and load should be used in it. I did some measurements and narrowed it down to a 6.5x52mm Carcano cartridge. I would also like to know what the value of this rifle would be. Im not interested in selling it, but I am wanting to use it for deer hunting this fall. I do know it is a very straight shooter and I have fired it, but unfortunately, the few shells and casings I had were lost in a fire, and am having a hard time finding what ammo to use in it. Any info you great people could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

stamped #s
6.5mm MANN  on the barrel, with 19SS just below that at the edge of the wood, barely visible.
STEYR 1897 on the receiver
S/N 38762
31371 on the top of the bolt handle

engraved on the bottom of the bolt handle is a 8 with 7.62 below that

NB - 'chuck':  Your, 1897 dated, Steyr  Krag was built in Austria and started life as a Model 1894 Norwegian Army rifle (in 6.5 X 55mm).  Norway contracted with Steyr to build some rifles during 1896 and 1897.  The 1897 serial numbers ranged from 30,001 to 39,000.  Your bolt may have been replaced, but, the "8 & 762" numbers appear to match the last four digits of your receiver's number, 38,762.  Some 'Steyr-Krags' found their way to South Afrika, during the Boer War.  These are quite rare and IIRC, not in your serial number range.
  It is likely your Krag was rechambered in North America for the 6.5 X 54mm Mannicher-Schoenauer cartridge, after WW2.  In the 1950s, Dominion (Canadian Industries Ltd.) 6.5mm M-S ammo was easier to get than 6.5mm 'Swede' or Italian-Carcano.
  The chamber-alteration was either done by shortening the dismounted, left-hand threaded, barrel at the breech end and re-chambering or by inserting a chamber 'liner'.
  As I advised in an earlier response, it would be a good idea to have this rifle checked by a knowledgeable 'gun person'.  (Attached photo of 'Boer' General Tobias Smuts with Model 1894 Steyr made Krag).
  Photos of your rifle would be enjoyed by all and may beget more information.

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Thank you for the reply. I would like some clarification though, you said my S/N didn't fall within the range you stated? It looks to me like its within tat range, toward the end of the series, or would there be another identifying mark on the barrel perhaps under the forestock?

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Also, I measured the chamber with a 1/4" wooden dowl, and it measured exactly 52mm. A 54mm cartridge would be too long.

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Is there anything else I could post to find out more?

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NB 'chuck':  Your Steyr Krag is in the serial number range of the Norwegian Model 1894 Infantry rifles built in 1897, (#30,001 to #39,000).
  I said, it is not in the range of Boer (OVS - Orange Free State and ZAR - South Africa Republic) Steyr Krags, that seem to number below #900 and lack some of the Norwegian markings.

Another picture, at the edge of the wood, it has 19SS or tats what it looks like, may be 1955.

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Clear pictures of the numbers and markings on your bolt would be interesting.
  It appears your barrel has the small 'swastika' marking of a Norwegian steel or barrel producer.  This marking is common on early Norwegian Krag barrels and has nothing to do with the Nazis.
  There are a couple of filled screw-holes in the groove on the left side of your receiver.  It appears a scope was once mounted on this 'sporterized' Krag.

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chuck0990 wrote on Jan 4^th, 2015 at 12:56am:

Also, I measured the chamber with a 1/4" wooden dowl, and it measured exactly 52mm. A 54mm cartridge would be too long.

And were you measuring from the back end of the chamber to the front of the neck? If so, you have to add a couple of mm for the distance from bolt face to rear of chamber.

In any case, a 1/4" (.250") dowel should slip right through a 6.5mm (.256") bore and is therefore a pretty inadequate tool for measuring chamber length. Try this for a better chamber length measurement -

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For 6.5mm's, a #1 buckshot (.300") is about right. If you don't have an empty case, substitute a piece of that 1/4" dowel 2" (50.8mm) long. Drop buckshot and dowel into chamber, close and open bolt, push buckshot out with rod, measure length to impression of chamber mouth, including dowel. Use longer dowel if no impression is evident. (No buckshot handy - try oiled, well-chewed gum - yuk!)

NB'chuck':  The 6.5mm M-S and 6.5mm Carcano are very similar cartridges.  I have heard of a number of Norwegian Krags altered to the once popular and available M-S round.  Back in the 1950s, 6.5 Carcano was rare in hunting loads.  In fact, M-S brass was used to make reloadable Carcano ammo.  The Carcano round is just an unlikely candidate for re-chambering.

You may have to resort to having a chamber cast done to accurately measure your chamber.  (I no longer have any 6.5mm M-S brass laying around.  Otherwise, I would send you some cases to play with).

Here are some dimensions from one reference:

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Thanks for the extra info, I'll see what I come up with and post soon. Thanks again.

I made a plug out of a pencil and closed the bolt on it. It measured 55 mm. A 6.5x55 cartridge wont go in all the way so I marked the cartridge at the edge of the chamber and it looks like the same measurement as the6.5x54 M-S. Is it possible to be any other than this cartridge?

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I noticed the ball on the bolt handle seems to be a bit  bigger tham most rifles I see.

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Bottom of extractor

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Bottom of the bolt. You can also see the engraved  8762 here on the bolt handle.

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Side of bolt.

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NB'chuck':  Your bolt is a standard Model 1894 Norwegian Krag bolt.  Its original #??.685 is a mismatch for rifle #38,762.  Someone, probably the 'Smith' who did the re-chambering, 'pencil-scribed' the #8/762 to show that the bolt was fitted to altered rifle #38,762.

If your barrel was 'set-back' (shortened at the breech) and re-chambered for 6.5X54 M-S, the 6.5X55mm Swede cartridge would be too 'fat' and too 'long' to fully enter the chamber.

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A couple of thoughts:

The Italian Carcano rifle is a variation of the Mannlicher 'turn-bolt' action, but, its cartridge has always been referred to as the 6.5mm Carcano, in North America.  The cartridge was little known until rifles and surplus Italian military ammo appeared on the surplus market in the 1950s and 1960s.  Until Norma offered loadings, hunting ammo was made by 'pulling' military bullets and replacing with commercial bullets.  (Prior to sizeable numbers of surplus rifles getting to North America, after WW2, the cartridge was made just in Italy and military).

By contrast, the 6.5mm M-S cartridge and Mannicher-Schoenauer sporting carbine was used by 'published' hunters all over the World.  Ammo and sporting rifles were imported to North America as early as 1903.  The cartridge was always a bit exotic, but, it was loaded by American and Canadian manufacturers prior to WW2.  (British gunmakers built sporting rifles, after WW1, using surplus 'Dutch Mannlichers', which utilized a rimmed version of the 6.5 M-S cartridge).  In 1955, "6.5mm Mann." likely meant the M-S cartridge and its illustrious 'hunting' reputation.

Neither of the cartridges in question is in any way rare, or expensive, or hard to come by. Why not just obtain an example of each and try them, instead of a pencil?

FWIW, my money is on the 6.5x54 MS, for the exact reason(s) Chuck laid out so clearly.

Just a thought.

Hi all, I just verified today my Krag is indeed a 6.5 x 54 M-S. I'm wondering what the max. pressure this rifle would handle. I also picked up a box of Norma 77 gr. while I was at the gunsmith's shop, how would these perform in this rifle? During my searching, I came across a collector who has a 6.5x55 (Swede) and a 30-40 Krag, he says they're both shootable, except the 30-40 is missing the butt plate, both are sporterized and he wants $200 for the pair with a box of 6.5x55. Sounds like a pretty decent deal to me, any thoughts?

Well, if you figure the ammo is worth $30, that puts the guns at $85 each - 1950s prices - they'd have to be awfully bad to not be worth it. You should be able to triple your money at least, unless they are both absolute turds.

Seems to me that it is important to learn how the 6.5x55 to 6.5 MS conversion was accomplished.  Was the old chamber bored out & a new piece of barrel inserted & chambered?  Or was the original barrel simply set back & rechambered?

IIRC, the original 6.5 M-S shot a 160 grain bullet about 2000 fps, out of a very short barrel, with a case that is much smaller in diameter than the 6.5x55.  Pressures might be just a bit higher than the original 6.5x55 loads.  If the chamber is an insert, you probably do not know much about the steel in the insert. 

If it was my rifle, I would stick with loads that did not exceed the original M-S load.

There is lots of loading data available for 6.5 X 54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer.  I would stick to 'Starting Loads' which usually prove to be quite accurate and efficient.  I would recommend 160 grain round nose projectiles and neck-sizing fired cases.  (Back the reloading die off a turn).
  The 160 grain loading earned the 6.5mm M-S its good reputation and is probably what your altered Norwegian Krag action was adapted to feed back in the 1950s.
  Oddly, the Mannlicher-Schoenauer and Krag actions both have the reputation of being 'butter smooth'.  However, they are booth fussy about over all cartridge length and bullet shape & contour - IMHO and experience.

Hi Chuck,

I'm getting into this a bit late, but I would certainly believe your Krag is chambered for 6.5x54 M-S. I have one that has been fitted with the chamber insert by the Canadian Importer. The left side of the barrel is stamped "6.5 MM Mannlicher". It is very accurate and shoots to the same point of aim with everything from 100gr. to 160gr bullets out to 200 yards. 

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Finally scored some 6.5x54 M-S without breaking the bank or having to go across the border to find it!! 156 gr PPU $36.95/ box CDN $ Now I just need to get a permit to try it out :)

I seem to recall these Canadian rifles being made with some sort of chamber insert rather than setback and rechambered.  That was one importer, hard to say if it was done by them or some other gunsmith.  At the time they were imported, as BR said, Dominion was making 6.5x54MS ammo.  I note a couple holes on the left side of the receiver.  You guys remember the fellow who ran across one like that, he wound up restoring it as a rare sniper rifle?  Williams at one time also made a mount.  A filler was made for the lightening cut and attached with screws, then a side mount attached to the filler with screws.  They don't make them anymore.