I have a model 1899 Krag carbine that has a small oval plate screwed into the bottom of the cheek part of the stock, where a sling swivel would go normally, that says "OALW 82".  Has anyone seen such a marking on a krag before.  I have no doubt it was applied after it left service, but have no idea wha it might mean or refer to.  Any ideas?

thank you :)

These guns, frequently called "Red Ryders" by the late Krag guru Bill Mook, due to the peculiar coloration of many of their stocks, were "put togther", some faked, all at least refinished, by a man in the Midwest named Ostberg/Ostburg. I cannot recall his first name - I think it was Stan or Sidney, but am not certain.

OALW stands for Ostberg Armory & Locomotive Works. He f**ked over Lionel Trains as well. While often found in very nice condititon, the carbines bear a certain stigma amongst most collectors, because they are not original SA work.

A bittersweet "plus" is that he DID mark his work, in contrast to others who have just put fakes together and sold them to the highest bidder.

"OA&LW" kind of sounds like the "Mitchell's Mausers" of Krags. Thanks for the history, Dick.

Thank you.  the carbine looks correct as far as I can tell, (but I am not expert at all), with the exception of the small oval plate with the OALW 82 and the shiny butt plate.  The sights look right and the stock has the cartouches in the right place.  It has the 1899 cocking piece without the knob.  Not sure whether to keep it or not.  It was listed without any photos showing the OALW 82 plate.

'kw64': I have no idea about what you paid for it or what your intent is regarding this model 1899 carbine (correct collection piece or 'correct looking shooter').

Perhaps if you posted some detail photos, you would get useful feedback regarding its correctness and value. This might help your decision regarding keeping this Krag.

Thank you.  the carbine looks correct as far as I can tell, (but I am not expert at all), with the exception of the small oval plate with the OALW 82 and the shiny butt plate.  The sights look right and the stock has the cartouches in the right place.  It has the 1899 cocking piece without the knob.  Not sure whether to keep it or not.  It was listed without any photos showing the OALW 82 plate.

To answer your question it would be a stretch to call myself a collector, but I do like period accurate pieces.  However, probably not down to the level that some real collectors want.  I have posted some photos and would appreciate your opinion on this carbine.  To my uneducated eye everything looks good except the OAWL plate and the shiney butt plate.  thanks

Ken

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To answer your question it would be a stretch to call myself a collector, but I do like period accurate pieces.  However, probably not down to the level that some real collectors want.  I have posted some photos and would appreciate your opinion on this carbine.  To my uneducated eye everything looks good except the OAWL plate and the shiney butt plate.  thanks

Ken

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'kw64': Your Stock and hand-guard look like nice Italian walnut ones. I believe your Model 1899 carbine, #235485, was built around November, 1899. The 'knob-less' striker-rod is probably correct for your carbine's number range. The Stock 'cartouche', dated 1901, probably indicates the Stock was switched by someone or during a rebuild. Your 1901 rear-sight is a rifle base that someone has stamped with a "C". A 1901 carbine base is marked to 5 (500 yards) and the "C" doesn't look right on your base or the edge of the leaf. A carbine leaf goes up to 23 (2,300 yards). More pictures will allow more observations.

(photo of a real 1901 carbine sight attached).

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thanks.  Here is another photo of the rear sight.  I am not sure how to attach more than one photo per post.  I think I paid too much for this carbine:  $1,600 but the sellar is willing to take it back.  They specialize in cowboy guns, not old military pieces.  I suspect it is too much a patch work of pieces to keep.  Thoughts?

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k

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OK, more photos

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'kw64': Your 1901 rear-sight is all rifle sight and falsely marked with "C"s. Your rifle sight leaf has a built in drift correction. A real carbine sight leaf does not angle for drift. (The inside edges of the carbine leaf are parallel to the outside edges). A correct 1901 carbine rear-sight costs about $250.

It is hard to tell. Some of your photos appear like there is some refinish of metal or wood. It could be just the 'Flash'.

IMHO - What I see is worth $700-$800 (value of parts). I would give it a higher value, if I saw it in person and saw that every thing appeared to be the original looking finish. The picture of your front/sight muzzle area looks good, as does the action. What is the condition of the bore?

The 'OALW' plate, you mention, bothers me. It sounds like it is recessed in a sling swivel mortise. You have a real carbine stock. However, I don't like carbine stocks that have been fitted for a butt sling-swivel. You have a nice stock, but, the '1901 cartouche' date does not match the acceptance period (1899-1900) of carbine #235XXX. It is a pretty looking carbine.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks,  added a photo of the OAWL piece.  The bore looks good.  But I do think I will return it.  I don't like the idea of a faked rear sight, especially for what I paid for the gun.  Rubs me the wrong way I guess.  Good learning experience, and still in the market for a "correct" carbine......

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Never cease to have questions..... the Poyer book states on page 168 that "the model 1901 carbine rear sight was originally assembled to all Model 1899 carbines after serial #345,000....."  That begs the question of what rear sight was used prior to serial number 345,000?  Earlier he states that the 1898 rear sight was added to 1899 carbines between serial numbers 242,000 and 285,000.  So what was used before on the 1899 carbines.  The one I have has a serial number of 235,xxx.  Thank you

I am not an expert - I am an amateur:

A model 1899 carbine, (#235XXX), built in 1899, likely has had three to four different rear-sights on it, during the course of its service:

1. When first built, it probably had the 1896 carbine rear-sight.

2. This could have been upgraded in early 1900 to the 1898 carbine sights developed for the 'hotter' 2,200 fps round. (This ammo was withdrawn from service in March, 1900, due to cracked bolts. Carbines in storage were not updated immediately).

3. 1896, 1901, and 1902 carbine rear-sights are all believed to have seen use, on updated/re-sighted carbines, when the 1898 sight and 2,200 fps ammo were abandoned.

4. For a time, the 1902 carbine rear-sight, (1,000 made), was preferred on Regular Army carbines, because it was most like the sight on the new 'Rod Bayonet' 1903 Springfield.

5. With 1905 changes to the 1903 Springfield, the 1901 Krag carbine rear-sight became preferred for Regular Army Service. It was most like the sight on the re-designed 1903. (1902 sights supposedly went to National Guard use and 'School Rifles').

The 1899 carbine, you have, is conceivably 'correct' with any of the four Krag carbine rear-sights (with appropriate hand-guard). The cheapest and easiest carbine rear-sight to find is the 1901 type.

To anticipate your next question: The 1899 'humped' hand-guard, for use with the 1896 carbine sight, appears in 1900.

The 1902 'humped' carbine hand-guard, for use with the 1901 carbine sight, was ordered in February, 1902, as a replacement on carbines (with the 1901 carbine rear-sight and regular hand-guard).

Potentially, lots of things can be correct on an early Model 1899 Krag Carbine - IMHO!