I just got home with my 2nd new Krag this week and I hope this will give a few of you a laugh.  I found this at a local gun shop, the shop guys and I were kind of joking about the stock carving,  I wish I knew the story, I am sure someones father/uncle proudly carved this and it got passed down to someone who didn't care. Once I got past the rear stock, I noticed the 1896 carbine rear sight, so I bought it for that.   It is not my style so if anyone is interested in a "Custom" stock let me know.  Anyone have a less gaudy sporterized stock they want to sell?   

Can someone please check S/N 388396?

Here it is,  the ugly, the bad, and the good, followed by a few more pics.

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Good find on the 1896 carbine rear sight. It always pays to look close for gems!

Not to my 'Tastes', but I have seen infinitely uglier Stocks. With the 'Germanic Acorns', 'psteinmayer' will probably lust for it!

No listing for Krag, #388396, in Mallory's "The Krag Rifle Story".

I hope it is a 'tack-driver' in its 'Running Deer' Stock, so you are put in a dilemma about re-stocking it! (I am a mean little man).

Thanks for your kind words.  I took a look at the front sight.  The pin is missing and it looks like they brazed or welded the sight to the barrel.  The good part is that they moved it back slightly so if I replace the current 1903 front sight and put it in the correct position it will cover the damage caused by removing the current one. Any suggestions for removing so as to cause the least damage?

I wish whomever shortened the barrel on my fake carbine had done as nice a job with the crown as they did on this one.

Is 26" a common shortened barrel length?  Just trying to get a feel for whether it was probably shortened by Bannerman, Stokes, or Bubba!

Maybe your new gun was modified by several people with different skill levels. I do not care for the carving, but it looks like it was nicely done, if it had been checkered instead the seller would have probably gotten a lot more money. That front sight does look terrible. Try scraping off a piece of the excess solder with a knife and determining the melting point. If it is low, the sight could be removed with no further damage to the barrel by heating it with care not to damage the bore. One could probably cut it off at 24 inches and recrown it as another solution. One more way to fix it would be to turn, mill, and reshape what is on there now. Either fix would be easy for me as I have a fairly well equipped machine shop, but I could do a fairly decent job of fixing what is there with only a couple of files and a bench grinder.
If you do not have the skills yourself, a good gunsmith could clean up that sight in a couple of hours assuming the bore was not damaged in attaching it.

Thanks for the advice on the front sight. 
I think I will try to gently remove and replace it, moving it back to its original position.  I am going to take the action out of the stock later today and clean it. I will tell you this, the stock is heavy, and a little long for me to shoulder comfortabley.  The fossilized butt pad doesn't help with that.

I agree on the carving, since I bought it for the rear sight my thoughts are to:
-fix the front sight.
- put on a '-01 or '02 rear rifle sight
-find a more plain sporterized stock.
-shoot it.
-sell/trade it.

Does the barrel have a proper crown, or was it cut off "square". Picture isn't very clear, but it looks like the latter. The front sight is not original, so it strongly suggests that the barrel was whacked by Bubba, since, if the gun already had a 26" barrel with correct crown and proper front sight, it would have been left alone.

Reason for my asking is that, in 1902, 100 rifles were made up by SA, for trial, under the auspices of the Board of Ordnance and Fortifications, with 26" barrels. They are quite rare, as you might expect, and your serial number is very close to one of the small clusters of known numbers, totaling 21 at present. I own 388786.

Dick,
Thanks for the input. w What sight configuration does your 26" rifle have? As I mentioned this has a '03 front and a '96 carbine rear, which I thought was a strange sight to find its way onto a Bubba rifle.  Why not just use the '01 or '02 that was probably on it?

Here are some better pictures of the barrel crown.

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Wow, I hate to say it, but that looks like it could possibly be an original SA crown - certainly isn't a hacksaw job, and the surface shows age. If so, it was a very unfortunate and/or unlucky choice by the party who modified it. Check out the home page to see the current list of known 26" barreled rifle numbers.

I actually have found two of the BoOF rifles.

My first (388786) came with a 1902C sight, in an un-marked M1899-length carbine stock. This is not the classic/original "book" configuration, but does match the one in the SA Museum. I do not find it completely unreasonable to speculate that - while under test to see if one arm would be acceptable to all branches - some may have been fitted with carbine stocks.

My second (389182) came in a properly dated (JSA/1902) rifle stock - which I'm sure is the original - but sadly was chopped just ahead of the band. BUT, it did still have the special sights (an M1901 hand-graduated to 2100 yds, and front blade with a VERY slightly different height/curvature). The original stocks were made new for the test guns and lacked the final lightening slot.

Golly, wouldn't that be something if it were a BoOF rifle...

'MPF' - It appears there is lead solder holding the 1903 Springfield front-sight on your 26" barrel. If it were my rifle, I would remove the band-pin, screw and front blade unit, heat the solder with a propane torch and knock the banded front-sight base forward off the barrel . Then, I would look for any evidence on the exposed barrel area for the remains of a brazed Krag front-sight dovetail.

BTW - Here is a photo of the special BoO&F rear sight Dick mentions.

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This is one of the neatest posts in a long time.  If it were mine (don't I wish), I would take steps to restore it.  But how?

How?

Well, you'd need to properly remount the front sight - but ONLY if the original slot IS there. If it is not, then it IS Bubba's work and just happens to have a decent crown. And, if the barrel is NOT right, then the points below would cross the line from (heavy) restoration to outright fraud.

Next, you need to find a stock with a JSA/1902 stamp. Buy a junker with a cut stock because you are going to have to work on the front anyway. Buy and fit a stretcher piece for $45. Get an upper band, which will need to be thinned a bit so as to fit the larger barrel. Emery cloth and elbow grease.

I wouldn't worry about the front sight - get the tall 1898 blade - as no one knows the difference anyway. For the rear sight, find a junker 1901 base and file/stone off the platforms at the front of the ramps. Use a carbine leaf if you can find one, as it will look more correct.

Voila - a "five-footer" restoration, at minimal cost and very little collateral damage.

I never say never, but the chance of finding a proper rear sight is virtually NIL.

I applied some heat with a butane pencil torch and was able to get the solder off.  drove out the blade, the pin was already gone.

So far it has resisted my attempts to remove.  I gave the seam a shot of liquid wrench and we will take another shot at it later tonight.  I am being pretty careful, I don't want to damage the finish more than the person who mounted the '03 sight already did.

I removed the action from the stock hoping that the carver left his name somewhere.  No such luck, unless it is under the butt plate.  There is a partial stamp under the magazine "perior"  Extrapolate to Superior maybe?  Anyone know old stock manufacturers?  Nothing exciting about the barrel just a "P" as you would expect and a smaller lightly struck "R" or "K". 

Well that was fun!

I am sorry to report no slot on the barrel. There is a nasty groove on the top that will have to be covered somehow.   Dicks post has me thinking about making an homage BoOF rifle, doing all the things he mentioned EXCEPT put on a 1903 front sight.  It wouldn't fool anyone but it would be something different in the collection.  Thoughts?

Mitch

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'Mitch' - The picture of your new Krag's muzzle is kind of busy with the lead residue and finish wear. I am not totally sure of where the top of the barrel is. If there is a groove across the top of the barrel, it was made later by whoever put the 1903 banded sight on, for the 'cross-pin'.

If a Krag front-sight base was cut down and filed flush to match the barrel contour, the brazed dovetail seam would be pretty discrete and hard to see.

FWIW - Clean off the Lead and any surface corrosion & look very carefully for the remains of a fine brazing seam.

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An after market stock which might have been labeled "superior" or some such?  I think the major makers all sold higher than average wood for a premium.  Stoeger's sold some really nice stocks marked "Peerless".  Maybe they had other grades also.  My bet is that the carving dates from the 1930s.

I'd go ahead and make up the faux BoOF for fun, if you want to. There will be enough "wrong" with it that no one would be fooled in a future sale. You can actually have the best of both worlds by keeping the sporter stock, as well, to use for hunting.

Whatever you do to the front sight will work just as well as the abortion that was on there, so you are really not losing anything.

Is the distance between the upper band and the muzzle the same on the BoOF the same as for a regular rifle?  Was a bayonet used?

Not to beat a dead horse but…..I cleaned the barrel with #9 and went over it very lightly with 0000 steel wool, and took a few more pic's.  I don't see the remnants of a notched flat on the barrel for a front sight.  chalk line is for reference.  Hopefully I can get an '03 sight to cover what looks like a hacksaw mark without having it  down the barrel too far.

Thank you to everyone for their comments and suggestions. 
Per Dick's suggestion I am thinking of making the faux BoOF.  Where else am I going to get a 26" barrel, and a good ballpark s/n.  But I can't use the existing stock for anything except to keep the action from being damaged.  I am a left handed-shooter.  Watch for it coming to an eBay auction near you, unless someone wants to jump to the head of the line on this beauty and make me an offer…………….anyone?….oh Well!

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reincarnated wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Is the distance between the upper band and the muzzle the same on the BoOF the same as for a regular rifle?  Was a bayonet used?

Yes, the spacing was identical - everything was just moved 4" back. While the stocks were made new, everything else was reworked. They did not NEED to test the bayonet, but it seems that at least some were made up. A couple (literally) have shown up with slightly larger holes and a "26" stamped on the cross-guard. Joe Farmer got one with his (very high condition) rifle but has VERY wisely refused to show a picture of the marking.

I've got a barrel with some of those pin slots, and noted that at one time various outfits were threading what they referred to as ordnance barrels, for the Krags.  I'm assuming they were machine gun barrels, for the most part.  Maybe BAR barrels too.  As long as it was .30 cal, it was probably fair game.

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I suspect one photo shows the outline of an original armory front sight base still brazed in position but cut down, contoured, and finished to match the barrel. Polish the area a bit more with fine steel wool and the braze line may become apparent - as in this intact example on my '98 rifle:

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MPF, you did a very good job in cleaning off that solder and leaving the bluing. I would not have thought it could be done.
It does look like at least 2 different people did the work on your Krag. The person that did the soldering could not have been the person that did the fitting and carving on the stock.
I have read an old gunsmithing book were the author describes how to get the style of crown you have with hand tools and I know I could do it. The crown you have was blued after the work was finished. In your photos it almost looks like there are remnants of the factory sight underneath the bluing. If you will be covering up the saw cut anyway looking under the bluing for ButlersRanger's  brazing will not hurt anything.
I still could see this going either way, a nicely done hand finished crown or the SA conversion that was covered up.

Added Info. I just looked at my grandfather's old original 98 and the bluing covers the brazing. It was done so well I had always thought the barrel and sight were one piece. There is a very slight difference in the bluing on the brazing, now that I know what to look for.