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Firearms >> Sporterized and unofficial modified Krags >> The Usual---what is it?
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Message started by buffler on May 12th, 2017 at 10:47pm

Title: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on May 12th, 2017 at 10:47pm
It's definiely a sporter, action marked 1897, has the lion and hatchet on the action just below the serial number, and on the bolt.  All s/n's the same, 5xxx, has a whacking great military sight, matching s/n, looking awkward on this rifle, and a ramp front. an absolutely beautiful soft blue job, might be a refinish but a long time ago?
Also has a set trigger that's in beautiful shape.
Barrel military stepped just in front of rear sight.
Major problem is the headspace. Gun shuts on no-go 6.5x55 guage. Checked after bad first shot, of course. Definitely bad chamber.
 
Questions, I guess. Is this a Steyr factory output as a sporter? Was it made by a 'smith somewhere?  And is there a possibility of an altered chamber to something weird? It's definitely 6.5.
I can try setting the bbl back one turn to fix chambering, have reamer and gauges, but would like to know just a little more before starting out. In particular, are the bbls on these Krags set up as hard as the Swedes or '98 German mausers?
Thanks, all, for reading.
Don

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by butlersrangers on May 12th, 2017 at 11:13pm
The 'Alterations' were likely done in Norway. There is a strong hunting & target tradition with the Krag in Norway!

Steyr had a contract and produced Model 1894 rifles for Norway, during 1896 & 1897.

Caution - Caution - Caution: Norwegian Krags have a left-hand barrel thread. (Even the ones made under contract by Steyr).

Some pictures of your altered Krag and 'fired' cartridge case will help others help you.

FYI -  early Steyr catalog giving some specs on Norwegian contract rifle.

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Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on May 13th, 2017 at 4:31pm
THANKS!!!!!!!I could have messed up the whole project!  Trust my ancestors to be gauche. According to the little table in Brophy's book on the American Krag, the serial number falls in the numbers made for commercial use, made in 1897 and numbered between 3001 and 7500. I'll try to get some pix done.
I also have to get the ejector fished out of the action and re pinned, dunno where the pin went!  Hope it is one of the plain type rather than one with the funky head.

Thanks again for the LH thread info, a real gunsaver!!!!!!
Don

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by madsenshooter on May 16th, 2017 at 3:19pm
Speaking of the one with the funky head, how does one remove it?  My .243 project gun needs an ejector pin.  Do you have any pics of the case you managed to fire?  What it blew out to look like might help determine what it is, a chamber cast might be in order.  6.5x257 Improved might be a possibility, though still a wildcat, one would have been able to make it from more readily available cases than the once hard to find 6.5x55.

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by reincarnated on May 17th, 2017 at 3:50pm
The 6.5 x .257 versions are all smaller in diameter than the 6.5x55. I think the 6.5 x .257s came about as conversions for the 6.5 Jap.  Same potential problem as making 7.7 Jap from .30-06 cases.  They mostly got away with it in the 7.7 conversions because the rifle actions are strong.  I would not try to convert the .257 or '06 case for a Norse Krag.

There are a couple of larger European 6.5 cases, but would they function through the magazine?  Or did a Norse Ackley-son get his hands on the rifle?

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by madsenshooter on May 18th, 2017 at 1:27am
There is a 6.5x55 improved.  I know the 6.5x55 is bigger in the head than a 6.5x257 improved, like you said, about the same as the 7.7 situation.  There are a couple versions of the 6.5x257 Imp, with various shoulder angles.   Perhaps differing amounts of case blow out too.  Someone could've done it, some guys just don't have better sense.
65x55.png ( 15 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by madsenshooter on May 18th, 2017 at 1:36am
Regular vs this improved.
6_5wolfkiller.jpg ( 114 KB | 2 Downloads )

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by madsenshooter on May 18th, 2017 at 1:44am
I don't know if the OP is a reloader, but what could be done to determine the chambering is neck up a new case to 30 cal, then run the case up into a 6.5 sizing die that has been backed off, slowly lowering the die a bit at a time and sizing the case until the bolt will just close.  The artificial shoulder you've made should keep the head against the boltface.  Load with a midrange load and fireform to see what you have.  Could be somebody has chambered it to an improved version that doesn't share the same datum line on the shoulder, like Ackley's improved versions do.  In that case, the fireforming operation might be needed to make yourself a supply of safe cases.  6.5x284 is also a possibility.

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on May 21st, 2017 at 11:14pm
Here are some pictures, at least I'll try as attachments, the insert image icon has impenetrable instructions...:

The measurements of the fired Steyr case as compared to an UNFIRED case  are:
just forward of the web, near the incipient case separation, .476 vs. .470; approx. 1/2 way to the beginning of the shoulder, .456 vs. .452, and just at the beginning of the shoulder, .437 vs. .432. I think the reamer was simply out of spec?  The distance from ctg face to beginning of shoulder is 1.747 for each case.
The other pictures do not show well that the muzzle end has been cut right at the beginning of the front sight ramp and filed flat, recrowned.

Does anyone know if NOS bbls are available? I did find some for the Swedes on epay, actually installed one that worked well.

Hope you enjoy the pics.
Don
lhs.jpg ( 630 KB | 5 Downloads )

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on May 21st, 2017 at 11:17pm
I dunno, I'll try to get the rest in here:  Never seen anything as ill-documented. Is there real help somewhere for including pix? I'll cheerfully admit to stupidity to get it right...
Don
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Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by butlersrangers on May 22nd, 2017 at 12:21am
That is a beautifully done 'sporterized' military rifle. The workmanship definitely appears European (Norwegian) and of good quality.

It would be good to have a 'chamber cast' made, to make sure it was not altered for a different cartridge.

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on May 28th, 2017 at 10:33pm
The saga continues  (get it, Norse gun haw) : Here is a picture of the chamber, and a picture of the action just opposite the chamber feature. The action peening was completely hidden by the stock. Took these with my microscope camera.
Evidently, the bbl is cracked, and was "fixed" by an unknown extreme bubba. Next is to remove the bbl and have the action magnafluxed or maybe if anyone out there has an orphan Norwegian barreled action FS, I have all the rest of the parts :-)

cchamber_detail.bmp ( 225 KB | 4 Downloads )
peened_action.bmp ( 225 KB | 3 Downloads )

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by madsenshooter on May 29th, 2017 at 3:17am
Wow! That was close to being a bomb!

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on May 29th, 2017 at 4:17am
yeah!  my fingers are crossed, but I am afraid the action is not going to be trustworthy. A pity... :(

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by reincarnated on May 29th, 2017 at 3:24pm
For a real challenge, it would make a very interesting .22 rimfire.

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by butlersrangers on Jun 9th, 2017 at 12:58pm
Caution - Norwegian Krag barrels have a Left-Hand Thread!

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on Jun 11th, 2017 at 4:36am
Thanks, got it. waiting on action wrench (may have to have some alteration). Found another in 257 Roberts that's nowhere near as nice, but OK to shoot.
Don

Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by buffler on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:38pm
Finally got my act together. Thanks to Bill Jacobs of Bolt and Barrel; how to modify a US Krag action wrench. Did not do it, but did get the clue about the cute little notch in the action  that was made for the wrench to fit in!  So I put a chunk of 7/8 steel stock in the mill, and together with a 1-1/2 " U bolt, which fits the exterior of the action just behind the handguard boss, came up with a nice wrench that works just fine. Turns out that the bottom of the notch is even with the center of the round part of the action. Hmmmm.

A couple of pix: all that's really necessary. The ubolt nuts should be snug, but should not be exuberantly tightened. Applying Kroil or the like for some days helped a lot. Good barrel wrench, and a dead blow hammer later, and off it came. Nowhere near as nasty as a 98 or a Swede.

Now: I solicit one more answer from you.  I have a nicely contoured 7 mm barrel, and contemplate putting a 7x57 Mauser on the action. I note the SAAMI pressures are equal for that and the 6.5x55. Any thoughts? I borescoped the original barrel, and it looks like the surface of the moon in there. Completely useless. As the pix I sent before (hope the new ones are a better size) show, the old bbl has been messed with, so collector value is low.
Unless someone can steer me to a NOS barrel ? (Joke).
Best, Don

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Title: Re: The Usual---what is it?
Post by Speed.wagon on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 2:39pm
Thanks for your post.  I have an 1896 Krag which I want to rebarrel and have had trouble finding info on an action wrench.  Yours appears useful and straight-forward. 

I’m curious how you proceeded - did you choose a Mauser chambering? 

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