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Firearms >> U.S. Military Krags >> OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
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Message started by Artemus on May 18th, 2017 at 11:54pm

Title: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on May 18th, 2017 at 11:54pm
I received the replacement forearm from Larry Price today and it is very close to specs! I understand a rifle stock should be 46 inches long.  Initial fit is pretty good. But some cutting will be needed. Before I start on epoxy, I need some help.  I don't have a bayonet yet to measure proper mounting distance and clearance from the muzzle to the end of the stock. If I mess this length up. a bayonet won't fit. Could some one measure their rifle from muzzle to front edge of the upper barrel band? From scaling up photos I am estimating 3.25 inches.  Also I have never seen a complete Krag rifle except pictures.  I could use some advice on making and placing a retention pin for the middle sling band.  What were these pins made of and how do they work without a spring?  Posted over on GB forums as well.  Thanks to all you experts.  Wish me luck.
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Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Dick Hosmer on May 19th, 2017 at 1:04am
The pin can be made from a nail, using one approx. 1/16" in diameter, slightly rounded and polished on each end. Exact diameter is not critical, but alignment is!! The hole MUST be drilled in a press - clamp the new loose forend to a squared piece of 2x4, to assure a perfectly straight hole.

The pin works without a spring since the clamping band is tightened behind it - and the pin only wants to protrude about 1/32" each side.

You might want to locate the hole a tiny bit forward of where it will wind up, that way you can make any final length adjustment with simple sanding under the band before epoxying, rather than messing with the more complicated upper band tenon.

I don't have a rifle handy, but someone will surely give you the offset. IIRC, it is closer to 4" than 3.25", but I could be wrong - wait until you hear from someone who has actually measured it!  Actually, you could probably be off as much as 1/16" or so - bayonets don't fit THAT precisely.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Steve Scobee on May 19th, 2017 at 1:25am
My 1898. Hope this helps.
image_097.jpeg ( 65 KB | 2 Downloads )

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by butlersrangers on May 19th, 2017 at 1:30am
'Artemus' - From the muzzle to the front edge of the Krag front barrel-band is about 3 & 3/32 inches.

From the stock 'shoulder' (rear edge of rear-band) to front stock tip is about 17 & 3/8 inches.

A couple of pictures to help:
krg-fa2_001.JPG ( 118 KB | 1 Download )
krg-fa3_001.JPG ( 130 KB | 2 Downloads )

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on May 19th, 2017 at 1:46am
Gentlemen!  Precisely what I needed!  And I can't believe I was that close to the upper band measurement!  I am stoked to see this through.  I understand the pin now.  Will save that for last before epoxy.  Somehow I expected it to be brass.

Artemus

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by butlersrangers on May 19th, 2017 at 2:29am
Artemus - I revised my measurements slightly after carefully measuring four model 1898 Krag stocks.

From rear band shoulder to stock tip is 17 & 3/8 inches.

From stock tip to muzzle is 3 & 3/32 inches.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Parashooter on May 19th, 2017 at 4:34am
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Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on May 19th, 2017 at 6:27pm
That is all I need for now.  Will certainly update when I am further along.  Thank you to all who answered my call.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Stretch32 on May 26th, 2017 at 9:12pm
I'm pretty sure that's the rifle I watched on GB for months. If it is, I almost stopped in TX on my cross country move to buy it from the store. I even made an offer on it but we never came to an agreement on a price. If it's the same rifle then it looks a lot better than the pictures he posted on GB.

As for the fore end, I also bought one from Mr. Price and found that if you cut the remaining fore end from the original butt stock (at the lower barrel band) and just butt the repair piece with no additional cutting the length worked out perfectly. I used Mr. Price's pre-drilled holes and, with a drill press, made corresponding holes in my original stock. From here, I used threaded brass rod for the smaller holes and a hard wood dowel that was "threaded" with a Dremel bit to pin it all together. After it was glued (using Acra-Glas gel) and pinned, I put the action back in to maintain alignment and zip-ties on the fore end tip for upward pressure then used an extra long clap (from butt plate to the end of the for end) to provide tight compression and a solid joint. I wiped the excess epoxy and let it cure.

It was a fairly easy project but I will say this, only use Acra-Glas (gel is preferred) for your epoxy since it works the best by far. Other 2-part epoxies just don't seem to have the strength or hold up to the shock of repeated firing. 

Stretch

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on May 27th, 2017 at 12:21am
Stretch, this would be the same rifle from Texas I bet. Although the gentleman said he had purchased a large group of Krags from a collection. The bore may be the best part of the deal. Having accumulated some of the needed parts, it seemed a fun project. I was not prepared to go into the thousand dollar range for a complete specimen that I want to be a shooter.  But I haven't gotten very far beyond mock-up and tear down. Using oak furniture 1/2 inch peg and treaded brass rods. There seems to be differing opinions on the type of epoxy to use and Larry says just glue it.  I plan to use DEVCON.  I am cutting the original remnant under the band off to butt it up as you said.  Only one cut that way.  Hope to get some time this weekend to make some headway.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Dick Hosmer on May 27th, 2017 at 5:39am
Not sure I understand exactly what you meant about "cutting off the remnant", but you DEFINITELY want the joint at the CENTER of the band, as per Parashooter's drawing, NOT at the rear edge of it.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on May 27th, 2017 at 5:58pm
Dick, is that so that the band itself would supply some amount of support on the joint?  With epoxy, would that be much of a benefit?  That requires a more complex fitting/measure with two cuts or careful sanding and 1 cut (as the approx. 1/4"remnant is not cut square, sort of a taper), both of which have to be square to each other. The maker of the forearm recommended an easier method.  Putting the joint flush.  Interested in comments.
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Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Dick Hosmer on May 28th, 2017 at 4:32am
I like the midpoint method because it gives you a way to cover any little glitches that occur - if something isn't exactly square it will not show. The support cannot be ignored either, but no matter where you put the joint, you should have some sort of longitudinal support as well. I see absolutely NO difference in coming up with the correct OAL being caused by the splice location. Just me. Haven't actually done it yet but I have a couple of projects in mind.

Title: UPDATE Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on Jul 29th, 2017 at 11:02pm
Update...I finally got around to a decision and went the "flush" method.  I drilled the original stock from a template I made and the alignment was close enough.  It's pinned, epoxied and clamped.  Tomorrow we shall see.
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Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by madsenshooter on Jul 30th, 2017 at 12:39am
I've done it both flush, as you have, and mid band.  The one done flush was an original forearm taken from a 92/96 that was savagely broken at the wrist and put onto another 92/96 that looked like the forearm was cut off with a bayonet.  The mid band was a Larry E. Price forearm that would not have been wide enough to do flush on the 98 I put it on.  I had the wood to spare to make up for it, and let him know it was a bit small on the big end, a problem that he must've fixed.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Stretch32 on Jul 30th, 2017 at 12:51am
I used one of Mr. Price's fore ends myself with the flush method and it worked like a champ. I was able to get a good solid join with pins, a big clamp and acra-glass gel. Now that it's all together I've fired a few hundred rounds with no issues and the only giveaway it's a repair job is the slightly different grain of the wood between the butt stock and replacement fore end. 

Stretch

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Dick Hosmer on Jul 30th, 2017 at 6:55pm
Can anyone refer me to a tested source of forends other than Mr. Price?  I have had a couple of verbal run-ins with him over some really BAD stuff he has offered on Gunbroker, with, insultingly, "no questions answered and no returns accepted". In short, I would not pee on him if he was on fire.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by madsenshooter on Jul 30th, 2017 at 7:16pm
East Taylor Dick, I'm fairly certain S&S buys from them too.    (You need to Login; I've not used their forearms.  I did get one from Dunlap Woodcafts in European walnut.  It is going to take a lot of sanding to get the extra they left me down to size.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on Jul 30th, 2017 at 11:03pm
I am pleased with the forearm joint.  The stain and BLO matched up well with 100+ years of oiled stock. All I have left is the pin for the barrel band.   I'll post a full assembly later.  Thank you to all that weighed in to help me.  Another Krag rifle rescued!

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Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on Jul 30th, 2017 at 11:50pm
Reassembled but still need a bit more BLO rubbed in.   For me, the Larry Price forearm was a good fit and grain match.
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Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Cat Man on Jul 31st, 2017 at 2:08am
Here is a picture of the rifle that Stretch32 restored. He was shooting it at Camp Perry last week. Notice he is using the M-1907 leather sling with full tension on the barrel band and stock joint. The rifle and the shooter did just fine.

Cat Man (The big yellow machine kind)


IMG_0542.JPG ( 160 KB | 2 Downloads )

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by butlersrangers on Jul 31st, 2017 at 3:24am
The dreaded 'left-handed' disease!

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Dick Hosmer on Jul 31st, 2017 at 5:09am
NICE job of matching - both color AND sheen.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Artemus on Jul 31st, 2017 at 12:51pm
I'm a lefty as well!


Cat Man wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 2:08am:
Here is a picture of the rifle that Stretch32 restored. He was shooting it at Camp Perry last week. Notice he is using the M-1907 leather sling with full tension on the barrel band and stock joint. The rifle and the shooter did just fine.

Cat Man (The big yellow machine kind)



Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by psteinmayer on Jul 31st, 2017 at 2:11pm
My son is also a South-paw.  Watching him work the bolt is magical when he's shooting the Krag... but down right mesmerising when he's shooting the Arisaka!

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by butlersrangers on Jul 31st, 2017 at 2:42pm
I write and eat left-handed, but, shoot like a normal person. I guess I'm ambidextrous.

Years ago, I shot right-handed on a 'North-South Skirmish Association', eight man, Civil War team. Five of the eight guys were left-handed shooters. Photographs of us shooting our 'rifled-muskets' on the Firing-Line were pretty funny. It looked like "F. Troop".

During the American Bi-Centennial, I was in a British Loyalist reenactment group. You had to be 'right minded', when doing 18th Century Drill and Evolutions!

Artemus did a beautiful job on his Krag Stock Restoration. 'Stretch32' looks to be a most competent Shooter.

I have no intent to hijack this thread. The picture of 'Stretch32' just points out how the World can be unfriendly to guys with 'Paws".

(Ever heard of a "North Paw")?
butlersrangers.JPG ( 80 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by FredC on Jul 31st, 2017 at 10:19pm
Still off the thread's subject, but photo by Catman, is the bolt not closed? It looks high to me.
I have a Savage rifle with a 3 lug bolt, on this rifle it is easy to catch the bolt and lift it part way when carrying it for a while. I get misfires when that happens, I think the firing pin hits the opening cam and partially closes the bolt but slows the firing pin down enough that it does not strike the primer hard enough to fire. Seems like it could cause hang fires also.      Maybe I am not seeing it correctly or I worry to much.

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Cat Man on Aug 1st, 2017 at 12:54am
You guys sure have sharp eyes! Greg was in the "three minute preparation period" prior to shooting the next prone stage. He was moving and adjusting his position and yes the bolt was open during that time. I was scoring the shooter next to him so I made use of the time to hop like a bunny and get some quick photos.

I have seen some very good left had bolt gun match shooters over the years.

A friend many years ago got a great deal on orphan left hand Remington action and built a magnum long range match rifle. We used to share it in the NRA long range matches. You want to see some really strange looks, try shooting a left hand gun right handed!

CAT Man (The big yellow machine kind)

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by psteinmayer on Aug 1st, 2017 at 1:29am
Speaking of left handers... there's a guy that I shoot with on a regular basis in the local matches at KRGC.  He was the first guy to buy a charger from me.  He regularly shoots 290 and up with his 1896 Krag... AND wins matches over 1903A3s and Garands!  I have personally witnessed him shoot a 294-8X... and he did it in back-to-back matches (two Saturdays in a row)!  The charger made all the difference because before, he never got all ten off in the rapid.

I wish he had come to the Roosevelt this year.  Maybe I can talk him into joining us next year. 

Title: Re: OK now the fun begins, forearm repair
Post by Stretch32 on Aug 4th, 2017 at 12:40am

butlersrangers wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 2:42pm:
'Stretch32' looks to be a most competent Shooter.


I promise I'm not. Catman is an excellent photographer and coach. He can make anybody look good or like they know what they're actually doing.

Big thanks to my partner that day too for the shooting gear so I could suck somewhat less. 

Stretch

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