I inherited a Krag from my grandfather and would love to shoot the gun. While looking for ammunition I found that I needed to know the headspacing .60 or .70. How would I determine this? I am afraid if I take it to a local gunsmith he will have no idea about this gun.

Welcome to the forum, Robert.

The smarter more eloquent guys will be along in a bit.  The 30-40 head spaces on the rim and not the shoulder.   Personally I would not sweat the headspace if your grandpa used it to good effect and if it is in good mechanical condition.  Do you have any fired ammo with the gun?  That will tell much about the chamber.  Barring that, clean the rifle up and put a round through it and see what you got.  Then post a pic here of the spent round.

It had no ammo with it. I am not sure what rounds it uses. I was under the impression that is used 8-58R rounds not the 30-40 but I do not actually know or know exactly how to tell. I have been doing some reading but I am still don't know much.

Can you post a photo or 2 of the rifle?

Here are some pics.

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Alllllllllrighty.

First, until you post pictures, what does it read on the left side of the receiver?  All military guns as originally made have only one round chambered for it.  In US Krags it has only been the .30-40 round.  However some of these have been rebarreled in different cartridges. Possibly Danger City depending who did it.

So please post photos.  We are here to assist you in learning and shooting the Krag.


ADDED:  Looks like our posts crossed in the ether.

You have a European Krag.  Lucky guy!  The smarter guys will be along shortly.

Robert - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

You have a Model 1889 Danish Krag Infantry Rifle and it is in the 8 mm (rimmed) Danish caliber.

If the numbers on your bolt match the serial number on your receiver, I would not worry about head-space.

I will let others tell you about the cartridge and reloading. The Danes were the first country to adopt the Krag. The rifles were beautifully made and quite collectable.

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When looking to buy ammo for it it mentioned ammo by the head space. Why would you not worry about the head space? The ammo was listed at .60 and .70 and they made it sound like I needed the know which one to use.

Plus any info that anyone can give me on the year of the gun or anything. Even the value. I won't be selling it but that info is always nice to know.

Is this what prompted your initial question?

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Yes that is what prompted my original question.

I believe Danish Model 1889 Army Rifle, #78,041, was built in 1911. (It was likely built at Haerrens Tojhus - Army Arsenal - "HT with crown").

WAG on value would be $800, if parts match, with '041' on bolt and small parts.

I will let others comment on 8X58mmR Danish Krag cartridge and Buffalo Arms 'warning' and loads.

I found this sticky over on Gunboards' Krag rifles of Norway, Denmark & U.S.A. forum.

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And this is one of the links in it.

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Thanks for the links. The first link has lots of info that is back and forth on information. I did see a comment that no one disputed that after 1902 they were made for the .70. But does anyone have any comments about the buffalo arms. That post was 10 years old and most comments weren't good.

It is funny that the Wikipedia article shows .063 as the rim thickness and no mention of a change in 1905 as indicated on that forum. My inclination is the softer steel of the old Krags sets back the lugs and the headspace changes over the decades. I have seen it in the 2 US Krags in my family. I would expect the same in a Danish Krag as the better steels did not come on the scene till later.
If Buffalo arms will still sell you a box of .070 thick cases on trial do that. They will either chamber easily or not. If they almost chamber or chamber with difficulty trade for the .060 thick rims. Forcing the bolt to close on oversize rims would not be good for the long term health of the action.
One could check the free play in the bolt with it closed and the firing pin removed with a dial indicator.  .001 is the least I would want to see the thickest rim you can find, up to .010 play in the bolt would be acceptable.

Somewhere along the line of links, someone mentioned that Buffalo Arms would sell individual (or a few) unfired empty cases for the 8x58R Danish.  I know that they do sell samples of empty, unprimed cases because I have purchased them in another caliber.  So buy a few of each .060 and .070 and see which fits best. 

Once you learn the answer, please share it with us.

I ordered a few samples casings from each size today and once I receive them I will post what I found. Thanks  for all of the help!!!!

Got my casings in today. What should I be looking for? They both chamber easily.

If the thicker goes, that's the one I'd use.

Just curious.  Do the rims appear to be visibly thicker on the .070 cases?  Can you measure the difference?

I don't have something to measure them with but they visually look different.

The difference between .060 and .070 inches is more the 10% so it is easily seen. If this were mine I would pull the firing pin and chamber ALL the .070 samples and check for ease of closing, any binding while closing the bolt will be a problem. Ideally you should feel a little fore and aft play in the bolt when closed. Any cases will have a tolerance on the rim thickness probably plus or minus .002 inches (you probably will not be able to see this).  You do not want to order a bunch of cases and find the bolt does not close or closes with a resistance on a big percentage of the cases when you make a volume purchase.

Robert,
If you do not know how to remove the firing pin ask. The more experienced here can probably do it with their eyes closed. I do not play with my Krags that often. I can take them down but I have to look at them and think about it for a minute before starting.

Okay I got busy now bak to my fun stuff. To understand what does removing the firing pin do for me? I only have casings at this point. Like I had said both casings appeareaed to,fit in the gun fine. If removing the fire on will help me then I will need some instructions.  Thanks

Robert wrote on Aug 17^th, 2017 at 1:04am:

To understand what does removing the firing pin do for me?

I'm curious, too. Cocked, the mainspring tension will (on my son's bolt action) shove the bolt rearward making it difficult to detect any play. With the striker in the fired position on an empty case (no primer), I'd expect you could test for play--unless the firing pin bottoms on the primer pocket, in which case you could sacrifice a case and drill out the pocket. Perhaps it's easier to just remove the firing pin. Removing the pin on my .30-40 rolling block is easy enough. :D

I am attempting to attach a page out of the NRA guide to Rifles and Shotguns. I have done it several times myself with no written guide but not enough times to describe it in step by step. The attached page is a PDF upside down, print it and you can see it right side up.
There may be some info on the introductory pages to this site.

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Thanks for the diagram. I will try this over the weekend. So removing the firing allows me to fire it to see if the headspace has any effect on it?

FredC wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 1:22pm:

... I would pull the firing pin... Ideally you should feel a little fore and aft play in the bolt when closed.

With the pin out, the mainspring will not be pushing on the bolt, and you will be able to detect the play he mentioned earlier.

I just checked my original Krag from my dad and the bolt is free after the firing pin is released. Not sure if it safe to dry fire your Krag or not. But if you do not want to disassemble the bolt you could let the firing pin down on each UNPRIMED cartridge you check you check. On mine holding the trigger as I closed the bolt seemed to work.
The only reason to even check this is case rim thicknesses do have a tolerance. Plus or minus .002 inches  total maybe with the most variation within a particular batch being plus or minus .001.
If you can detect a little play with 10 or so cases you should be good to go. You just do not want to find out that 50% of the plus .010 cases do not let the bolt close or are difficult to close as this would cause undo stress and wear on the gun.

Okay I removed the firing pin and tried it. There was very little play with the .6 and none with .7. So I should go with the .6?

The ones with the .07 heads do they bind closing the bolt with any effort? If not they probably have a little play that you can not feel. Every thing has a tolerance, I would not want you to get a batch that 50% was unusable because they were too tight or you use some that were marginal and caused undo wear to the locking lugs.

I wanted to thank evryine for their help. I was able to take gun out yesterday and shoot it with my dad. Talking to him about it he had didn't think that my grandfather had ever shot tbat gun. He couldn't afford the ammo. So that gun might not have been fired since WWII. My dad also told me my grandfather picked that gun out of a pile of guns that were surrender after the battle of the bulge.

As a side note I bought my ammo from buffalo arms and about a third of the rounds we fired the casings split on them. I took them to a gun smith to find out if it was the ammo or the gun. He showed me it was the ammo. It had not been loaded correctly and showed me visible lines on the ammo tbat shouldn't be there and that that was were they we're splitting.  So with my experience I wouldn't recommend buying ammo from there. 

Kind of ironic, after all their focus on 'headspace', maybe some of the cases are splitting because Brass Cases have flaw or scratch caused by Buffalo Arms' 'Forming Die'.

I wonder how 'hot' the Buffalo Arms ammo is? This seems to be a cartridge with a lot of conflicting information on the internet.

Is it really that difficult a cartridge to make safe loads for?

I'm curious who else has used the Buffalo Arms ammo, and if THEY had problems also.  Might not be a bad idea to avoid using the Buffalo Arms ammo if safety is questionable!

I bought two batches of a certain type of ammo that was reformed from .25-06 brass.  The earlier 2004 batch had about 60 percent neck splits after firing.  Some had fine cracks before firing and they were culled before shooting.  I discovered them by running my thumb nail around the necks.  The second batch a couple years later is still unfired but no discernable cracking or splitting.