It just popped in to my head and it burst like a soap bubble in a five gallon bucket since there is so much empty space in there.

I have never been a part of a postal match or know how one is run but from what I can tell from a short looky-see it can't be that difficult.

We could post pics of the targets here instead of mailing them in the old way.  And we would have to limit the pic size so we can see them on most all screens.

Any ideas?  Yay? Nay?  This is the craziest thing you have ever come with?  Man, You are a suuuuuuuuuper geeeeeeenius?

Culpeper going "Postal" is scarry!!!

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I would shoot it.  100 yd reduced or 200 std target?  Either would be fine with me.  100 yd might get more participation. 
It could be talked up at the Roosevelt match. 
Vic

We could discuss it at dinner on the Monday before the Roosevelt!  Good dinner topic!!!  I'd be up for it...

Oh... and Culpepper goin postal is the least of my worries with him, LOL  I'm more concerned that he'll show up to a match one of these days and make me look like a chump amateur!!!

psteinmayer wrote on Jul 14^th, 2017 at 11:04pm:

We could discuss it at dinner on the Monday before the Roosevelt!  Good dinner topic!!!  I'd be up for it... Oh... and Culpepper goin postal is the least of my worries with him, LOL  I'm more concerned that he'll show up to a match one of these days and make me look like a chump amateur!!!

A chump amateur?  Never!  You guys are all better shooters or smarter than me.  I'm the chump amateur.

A chump?  Well...   ::)

Alrighty.  The question remains how to run one of these animals.  So I guess a physical hundred yard range using SR-1 targets?  Most every one can get to a hundred yard range.  That way it simulates a two hundred yard shoot.

Targets need to show:

Bullet holes
Model of the rifle - Krags or a token M1899 Rem Lee
serial number

Opitional:
load data

Then post a reasonable sized photo to the official 2017 KCA Postal Match thread.  It is too big if somebody has to scroll side to side to see the photo.

Again.  This is just the rantings of a lunatic mind.  You guys know more about this stuff.  What do you think?

Ok....  sounds great!  Except....  Using the SR-1 at a hundred yard range.  I hate re-sighting for a 100 yard range.  I just leave my Krag set to 200 because that's where I normally shoot.  Sooo, if one CAN shoot at 200, we could make that ok, and the SR-1 at 100.  That way, those of us stubborn ole farts who want to be crotchety and shoot at 200 can do so... or am I just being a stubborn ole crotchety fart???  (I figure I'll just post results from one of my local 200 yard matches).

Now, another issue.  Will this allow for sporters?  Anyone with a scoped sporter is going to have an unfair advantage over those of us shooting iron sights. 

Another question, will this be off a bench rest?

I thought about the SR/200 and SR-1/100 thing as I was writing it and just made a call.  Like I said before I never did one of these things so I don't know no better.  That's why we talk about it.  You guys are the ones making the left and right limits.

It makes sense that either SR/200 and SR-1/100 is allowed.

It REALLY makes sense that no scopes are permitted.

On the bench or off the bench?  I am of the opinion shoot however you can make the gun work.  I would choose whatever works best if I could shoot the wings off flies standing better than I could prone or on a bench or even standing on my head juggling poodle dogs I would make it happen.

I added another post to keep a running tab on what you guys want.

I guess this should be gun vs paper shoot and not a shooter vs shooter match though there is some of that in any human endeavor.  How well does any particular Krag shoot with the load being used should be the focus.  But then I am naive in many things.

this post ( #7 ) will be the one used to spell out the limits of the match

So far we have:

SR at 200 yards
SR-1 at 100 yards

Targets need to show:

Bullet holes
Model of the rifle - Krags or a token M1899 Rem Lee
serial number

Opitional:
load data
photo of your Krag

Items not permitted

Scopes or after market sights.

IMHO - Bench Rest would not be very appealing for a friendly Krag 'postal match'.

It would be much more in keeping with the 'Krag Era' to shoot three targets, (scaled for range distance), in Prone, Sitting or Kneeling, and Offhand.

Krag rifle or carbine, basically as issued, (restoration work allowed).

Maybe a mat or blanket, but, no exotic 'Shooting-Jackets' or equipment. Period items and clothing would be cool!

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I'm in. I have a 600 yard match coming up on the 29th at Camp Pendleton. Will that work?
Jon

I'm in too!  I've never shot sitting or kneeling... but I'm always game for shooting.  I'd have to find a nearby range that I could do some position shooting at.

I'm interested. I need to reload some 30/40 since Im fresh out. I know the M14Forum does one but they all mail their target to one person

I've attached the link for the M14 match below incase anyone draws inspiration from it.

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will we have separate classes for US and European Krags?
I think a standardized 100 yd target would be best. When we all agree on one KCA will provide them.

FWIW - I Am going to review a contemporary Score Book and a 1904 'Match Manual' that I have. There were some interesting targets used 'back in the day' and probably some useful ideas on how the Legs of a match were structured.

In the cast bullet world there are strings shot for group, and strings shot for score.

(You knew it was coming).

Some Quirky rule ideas:

Rule #1. - NO BACK POSITION!

Rule #2. - Slings to be pre-1907 types, (leather or canvas 'tropical'). Must be present on rifle, but, can be used Only in prone position.

Rule #3. - Model 1892, 1896, and 1898 rifles to be used with 30 inch barrels and original types of sights.

Rule #3A. - Sight notches, apertures, and front-sight blade-width may be altered to accommodate visual problems. Sight equipment should be 'in the spirit' of the original Armory design. "1903 Springfield-type" banded front-sight bases, with a simple blade, may be used on Krags with cut-down or shortened barrels for the Carbine or Short Rifle Matches.

Rule #4. - Carbines, (originals or 'inexact replicas', made from cut-down rifles), may be used without sling in a separate 'Carbine Match'.

Rule #5. -'School Rifles', 'V.F.W.' and 'B.of O.F.' rifles, (originals or 'inexact replicas', made from cut-down rifles), can be used in a separate 'Short Rifle Match'. ('Sling Rule' #2 applies).

Rule #6. - No 'Glass Bedding', Free-Floating Barrels, or 'Pillar-Bedding' of Stocks is allowed. Epoxy, pins, screws, and dowels are allowed for repair of cracked, broken, patched, and spliced stocks and hand-guards. Standard barrel-bands are to be utilized.

Rule #7. - An Original 'two-stage' Krag trigger must be utilized. Parts may be lubricated, stoned and polished, but, 'let-off' should be 3 pounds or more.

Rule #8. - Ammunition should be loaded with .30 caliber jacketed bullets, weighing 140 to 230 grains, and moving at a velocity of over 1,700 fps.

Rule #9. A separate Match category should exist for Danish and Norwegian Krags.

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Not for me for sure!  I can just imagine a bunch of guys scouring the range looking for my blown off toe.

Yeah... I would avoid the back position too.  As much as I like the idea of laying around being lazy in the sun...  I can only imagine my torn shoulders screaming in pain (I'm already having a hell of a time just shooting prone)!  Oh... and I don't wanna look for Bob's toe either!!!

I don't have a pre 1907 sling.  How about a piece of rope ala Jethro Bodine? 

Otherwise... sounds great!!!

No free floated barrels would eliminate one of my rifles.  That's the way it was when I got it.  I've spotted a few others while surfing around.  They got played with a lot back in the days of Krag.

I hate to be difficult but I say we allow 1907 slings. Krag's were still floating around that time frame right? Not all of us own M1903 or M1887 slings.

I was just floating some ideas that respect the Krag and its era.

I think the goal should be to allow friendly and inexpensive competition, easily open to many KCA members.

A spinoff benefit might be preparation, added interest, and participation in CMP Matches that allow Krag rifles and carbines.

I think it desireable to avoid turning Krags into highly gun-smithed "Match" rifles.

Also, I think there are already ample opportunities for Bench Rest and Cast Bullet Matches for shooters pursuing those interests.

I don't have strong feelings regarding 'banning' model 1907 Slings, Sling use, Course of Fire and positions. I would just note that the Krag was used at a point in U.S. Shooting History when the use of the Sling was just beginning in competitive shooting.

IMHO - A Krag Postal Match may appeal to more KCA members, if it utilizes the techniques and technology of the pre-1903 Springfield era and not become a technology & equipment contest.

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I agree:  let the shooter show his or her stuff... not how much money they can spend on high tech equipment!!! 

I guess the sole question that remains is how many shots qualify as an "official" score?  Ten?  Twenty?  Pi?

I lean towards twenty hits but the reality of ammo availablity push me over to ten hits on paper.  (Hopefully all in the X ring)

I'll probably be a little more interested after today's eye appointment.  I hate to waste money on glasses, cause I know my right eye is going to get better in time.  I'll just go with the cheapest for now.  Danged onchocerca!

VA optometrist had to have surgery!  No new glasses for Camp Perry!  Back next month to try again.

In reviewing my 1904 "Firing Regulations" book and a 1920 era "score book", nothing wonderful popped out for match ideas, course of fire, or targets.

'Back in the Day', everything seems to have been shot at 200, 300, and 600 yards. 'Rapid Fire' and 'Skirmish' targets were Human 'head and shoulder' silhouettes. Slings were not used as shooting aids in the 1904 shooting position photos. Shooting attire was military in styling.

My thoughts, at this point of time:

Shooting to be done at 100 yards (SR-1 target), or optionally, if available, at 200 yards (SR-200 target). In the event of 'Tie Scores', the longer distance is the winner.

The U.S. Model 1907 sling, earlier styles of Krag leather slings, or the 'Tropical' canvass sling, may be utilized on rifles. Slings can be accurate reproductions.

Ammunition to be 'kind of military': 140 to 230 grain, jacketed .30 caliber projectiles, moving at over 1700 fps.

Two suggested courses of fire, (both can be utilized during season):

(35 rounds) - 5 sighters, 10 rounds Prone - Slow Fire with sling, 10 rounds Sitting or Kneeling - Slow Fire with sling, 10 rounds Standing - Slow Fire.

(35 rounds) - 5 sighters, 10 rounds Prone - Slow Fire with sling, 10 rounds Prone - Rapid Fire {fired in under 2 minutes, on 'kitchen timer'} with sling, 10 rounds Standing - Slow Fire.

(No Hi-Tech shooting coats or modern shooting apparel): A basic 'loose' USMC style 'shooting jacket' or a sweatshirt with elbow and shoulder padding is allowed. Earlier & Period 'military style' shooting clothing is encouraged. Safety/Shooting Glasses and Hearing Protection are required. 

FWIW - I am a bit of an 'Idealist' and Traditional. I am not disparaging other shooting disciplines. I like all types of Shooting.

But, IMHO, Krag shooting will be a lot more fun, if we aspire to pictures #1 & #2, rather than #3 & #4.

(Feel free to tell me, if I am out of touch with reality).

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I agree!  As much as I love shooting in the NM, and I do use a coat and other stuff...  I think in this case, we should aspire to be like our Krag forefathers!!!

Let's get loading and shooting!!!

We could use SR-1 targets to simulate 200 yd (standing slow fire and sitting rapid), then SR-21 to simulate 300 (rapid prone) and then MR-31 to simulate 600 yd (prone slow fire).  These reduced targets would get us close to historical matches.  We use these targets at our local 100 yd range for our monthly High Power matches.

I'll pony up for targets if anyone does not have access to targets.

Or, shoot everything on SR-1 targets to simulate CMP Games.

I just shot a 600 yard match yesterday. Each string had a possible of 200-20. Keep in mind that I was shooting along with the modern crap and F class shooters. I had the only vintage rifle on the line. I wish I had a buck for every "What is that boat oar you're shooting?"  First string I shot a 104-1. Second string was a 127-0. Not too bad for a tired rifle, tired shooter (62 yo eyes) and 1901 sights. Any way, I'm in for the postal match once you get it all hammered out.
Jon
Btw my rifle is an unaltered '98 rifle.

Did the Postal Match ever happen, and will we have one in the Spring?

Rich
@(:^]#:::

Nothing happening yet Rich.  I had planned on using up some Russian bullets before it got cold, but I kept putting it off and now it's frosty in the morning.  I had enough of the loads I was going to shoot a Vintage match (10 sf prone, 10 rf prone, 10 sf standing) from 100yds.  I've been scoping out a place where I could have a home range, but the VA isn't very willing to give me the home loan they promised me a long time ago.

Not my idea sadly.  BUT! 

Here is a postal match down Texas way.

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I would put "Krag Collectors Association" somewhere on the target to let people know about the forum, too.



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