I ordered a set of 45-70 dies today.  Can't wait to shoot my new (to me) model 1873.  Never shot cast bullets but it looks like a candidate.  Lyman book has several loads but they list a wide range of powders.

What kind of load? Probably not this one, eh?

---

That one looks darn good.  I'd like a load good for 100yards, the lighter the better.  I've not fired a trapdoor in a LONG time but I don't remember the recoil being very bad.  That's an interesting bullet.  I've never molded any bullets, lots of crappie jigs though.  I'd like to start out with a commercially available bullet.

Looks like Western Bullet has these

Parashooter, I ordered some of these from Western bullet.  I've never loaded cast bullets and internet searches yield conflicting information.  Would you mind providing a little wisdom?  Do you flare the case mouths like pistol rounds?  Do you crimp?  The bullets I ordered are prelubed with lube filling up the middle "cavity".  Thanks, David

bote wrote on Sep 13^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

[1]Do you flare the case mouths like pistol rounds?  [2]Do you crimp?. . .

1. Yes.
2. Only enough to remove the flare.

I hope you realize that 457130 is a very specialized bullet designed for short range "gallery" use and that extreme low-density loads of fast, dense powder like 700X require great caution to avoid double charging. A novice would do better with more conventional bullets and a bulky powder like 4759 that makes a double charge much more obvious on visual inspection before seating.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

I am a HUGE fan of Lyman's M-Dies. I haven't collected the whole set...yet....but have them in most of the calibers for which I use cast projectiles. Still possible to over flare but, set up properly, leaves a nice 'cup' in which to place the bullet and seats without shaving any lead. I can't give a strong enough recommendation.

I like the M dies as well.  I use them as mandrels for rounds that bushing dies are not available.  Looks like Brownells doesn't have them in 45-70. 

I don't have it with me but I think my Lyman manual has several loads for the little bullets with powders I already have.  I also ordered some 405s.

Bote,

I've been playing with trapdoor loads for about a year now. Two things I've figured out:

1. A flat based 405 grain bullet does not seem to work well in these rifles. You need a cupped base 405 or flat based 500 grain in a 20-1 alloy. Both these can be purchased, pre-lubed in SPG BP lube, from Buffalo Arms. These are what you want.

2. The 45-70 round was one of THE most tested rounds prior to introduction into the services. There is a book called "Loading Cartridges for the Original 45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" that provides a lot of info on how to replicate the original load and pointers that will make your rifle pretty accurate. I would get this book and read it, it helped me a lot.

Bottom line, for me anyway, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the cheap 405 gr hard cast Bullets and smokeless powder. I read this book using the suggested techniques and now shoot 2-3 in groups with 65 grs of FFg BP, .060 fiber was and the flat based 500 gr bullet from Buffalo Arms with a heavy crimp.

Stretch

Thanks Stretch32, I ordered the book.  With upcoming matches and some other things it will be early November before I can really put some time into load testing. 

The book was helpful to me. I will also say, much like Krags, they're all a bit different and each may prefer a different load. There are guys who shoot smokeless loads with good accuracy but I have had my best results shooting FFg black powder. I actually started replicating original loads per the book and then modified it slightly with less powder and a wad to get to my current load. I also played around with compression and crimps which seem to have a significant impact on these rifles. I use a compression and flaring die from "Track the Wolf" as well which are handy tools.

Stretch

I was really hoping to avoid black powder as my only experience has been with repro revolvers and it seemed I had to disassemble them to really clean them.  If I didn't there would soon be rust.  I also ordered the Poyer book on trapdoors which supposedly contains cleaning info.  Is there severe recoil with 500grain loads?

Bote,

I think the recoil is pretty mild actually.  No more than my SMLE or 1903. BP is more of a push than a kick I think and generates significantly less pressure than smokeless.

You can load smokeless loads but I had no luck with it and hard cast bullets. There are guys who do well well with them so if that's your preference then I'd start looking for some in reloading manuals or online. Just make sure the loads are for Trapdoor Springfield rifles and not Marlin or similar rifles that shoot 45-70. A Trapdoor cant handle the pressures that a lot of later or more modern rifles can handle.

I enjoy BP and don't think it's hard to clean especially in a Trapdoor. I enjoy BP so much I just bought a Martini Henry to shoot.

Stretch

I have a comrade who makes Martini-Henri parts.  I hope to get over to his machine shop in the near future. 

Hodgdon has a 45-70 Trapdoor loading section in their online manual.

I've had good success using 39 grains of IMR 4064 under a 500 grain ACME coated bullet.

Thanks AFJuvat.  What kind of groups do you get?  Did you try the 405 grain bullets?

I was getting 1 - 2 inch groups at 100 yards.

I've only loaded 500 grain so far, next time around I am going to try a lighter bullet.