Is anyone aware of any user installable barrel bands available to place on a Krag sporter? I'm updating my Dad's old Model 1899 to use for deer hunting this year and would like to place swivel studs into the stock for ease of carry. But I have concerns about the weakness of the stock in the thin area beneath the magazine potentially resulting in fracture at that area while using a sling to transport in the field.

Thanks,

RomeoJim

I should add that that whoever sporterized this Krag removed the barrel band, unlike my grandfather's Model 1898 which still has one. If there's nothing out there I'll just use the noose type sling that I have for my O/U shotgun.

You are wise person to realize the need for something like a barrel band. Even without a sling the 2 trigger guard screws are too close together and many stocks have been broken by the action wanting to come out of the stock when it is fired.
In years gone by there was a commercial fix almost as good as a pillar. Butler's Rangers has posted a photo of the old ad. Getting an original barrel band and using wood working tools to fit it to your new location may be the best. Fitting a forward pillar would require metal working skills as well as wood working skills. I am not aware of any commercial pillars today.
There are swivels that attach to the barrel but that does not help with the weakness of just using just the 2 trigger guard screws to hold the receiver down.

FredC,
Thank you for the advice. I'd like to get a barrel band and do the wood working to fit it but don't know if I'll be able to find one.

RomeoJim

I just bought a barrel band with the sling loop from movieman630 on ebay. I think he had more. This is probably what you're looking for. check that out.
Kerry

Kerry49,

Thanks for the tip!! Not sure if it will work but it's the best option I've seen so far!!

RomeoJim

A picture of your Krag's forearm might give a better idea of what might work.

Solutions also depend on type of front sight. If the front sight is easily removed, more possibilities exist. If the front sight base is brazed or soldered on, installing a band is trickier or more limited.

As others have mentioned, Krag Stocks tend to develop cracks if the barrel is not solidly 'held down' in the barrel-channel.

In the 1920's and 30's, gunsmiths put elegant barrel-bands on sporting rifles. In time, tastes and practices changed and barrel-bands went out of use.

If the wood will allow it, fitting an original Krag barrel-band is a great solution. Brownell's has a variety of commercial barrel-bands that might be adapted.

The Rice Company once had a practical solution. I have a Bubba 'altered' 1903 band that is a crude temporary fix. (Both are pictured).

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butlersrangers,

That looks like a nice adaptation!! I've enclosed a photo of my Dad's Model 1899 Krag. The stock is a Butler as was pointed out by a fellow member. The front sight is a Redfield and the blade at the top can be removed by removing a pin. Not sure if that will allow for enough room to slip and band over it but worth a try.

Thanks for your advice

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I've enclosed a photo of my grandfather's Model 1898. It has a thin barrel band with a screw that goes through and anchors the stock to it. It can be seen not far behind the front swivel stud.

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I don't know the dimensions or if parts are still available, but, Savage use to have a barrel-band on their model 340 rifles.

With the removal of some wood, such a design could be retro-fitted to a Krag 'aftermarket' stock.

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Butlers Rangers, I had a friend that had a Savage with that style band. He broke the band and I fabricated a new one for him out of the black strapping used on pallets. Feeler gauge stock would have also worked but would have needed bluing to look good. Thanks for the reminder I had forgotten what it looked like.
Also his rifle did not look like that, so that style of barrel band was used on other rifles making the likely hood that it is still available even greater.
If Jim is able to make this work I am sure others could benefit from the part numbers and the experience pulling this off.

For simply holding the barrel down, I'd use a piece of pallet strapping in a similar manner as the Savage part, but overlapped on the bottom, with a small squared piece of steel (with a threaded hole) above it. The little block could not turn, thus a screw could be fitted into an escutcheon in the forend. With that the wood is well attached and you could use a barrel-mounted swivel.

Dick,
The next time you have an excuse to that one down can you take some photos?
I looked in Brownel's catalog for the 340 Savage part #s and not there, not sure how to contact Savage to check. That system was easy and good, I am thinking how to make that Part #34, and I do have the right size collet a 1/4 x 1/2.
Looked further in the Brownel's and they have some one piece bands #593-159-004AQ 593-159-003AQ that would be appropriate for a Krag without a front sight or a removable front sight. They are cheap enough but I have no idea what the look like as the drawing is poor and small.

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I have not done it, and the idea is not original - came from the Rifleman Dope Bag 50+ years ago. I could probably make a sketch and scan it.

Numrich gun parts corp. was the source of the old Savage model 340 schematic.

FWIW - I searched their site and they appear to have the Savage band & screw in stock, but, not the special nut.

I have no idea of the dimensions of the Savage parts. I just always thought they had a good idea for a barrel-band, that was discrete and could be put on without removing the front sight.

A handy person could build a variation on such a band. I like Dick Hosmer's idea for trapping the nut.

A 'quick-detachable' swivel-screw, of the machine-screw variety, would be a nice anchor screw for such a barrel-band.

Thank you for all the good info. Seeing that Savage band has really got me thinking about similar alternatives if the Savagae part can't be found. Great idea to stabilize the from of my barrel landless stock.

I'll start checking around

Thanks again for your help!! RomeoJim

Just called Numrich They have the band but not the barrel band nut or the accompanying screw. Guess I'll try Savage and may eBay again

RomeoJim

Jim,
I just bought the screw and band yesterday.
If you can be patient, I will try to make the 34? part. After I ordered the pair (screw and band) I did another mock order of 20 of the bands, I put them in the cart and got no message they were out. So they may have plenty of the bands.
Anyway if you can be the beta tester I will make the 34 part/nut and we will see if this is a good fit for the Krag. Main concern its the barrel will be a different diameter than the Savage.
In the mean time if you can get a Savage dealer to provide the whole set of parts go for that and let me know to stop.

Hi FredC,
I responded to your text a few days ago and pushed ' post message' but it obviously never posted my reply on this thread. I am certain that Savage will be of no help in obtaining a part and I truly appreciate your offer of help. Figure up a fee for me and I'll be happy to pay for something that will solve the problem.

Thanks Again,
Jim

Jim,
Several others have looked for a band or such to prevent ruining of stocks. So lets use you as a guinea pig on this with the idea it can help others.
Found the parts in the mail after hours yesterday. The screw has 1/4 28 threads. The 2 photos of the band show that loose it spreads out considerably. In the tool makers vice the inside measurement is .708 when the legs are more or less parallel. Assuming that the band will live with plus or minus .032 in barrel diameter it will go any where from 10 inches to 17 inches from the end of the receiver, with 12.5 being the sweet spot at .708 inches.
The firs thing I want to do is make a mock up and see if this is going to fit in the stock at the lengths mentioned. I have a photo of my dad's original 98 Krag with marks at 10, 12.5 and
17 inches. I have some 1/4 X 1/2 aluminum rectangle stock, if I can find it I will turn the 2 catches and measure how much it stands off the barrel. If there is room we will proceed to proceed.
Could use some help here, what say the rest, are we barking up a good tree?
Jim,
Added thought.
I went back and looked at you posted photo of your stock, can you do what I did? Put a couple of pieces of masking tape on the stock they do not have to be really stuck down and mark 10 and 12 inches with a marker on the tape. Lets see how thick your stock is in that neighborhood.

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I wait with great  interest the outcome of your experiment.

It would be great if such a barrel-band could use the lightening-cut and hand-guard spring inlet on a sportered original stock. Also, if a quick detachable swivel stud could screw directly into the barrel-band nut.

Well here it is less the 1/4-28 tapped hole. To get this in the stock it will need a pocket 15/16 wide, 9/16 length wise (parallel to the barrel) and 1/2 deep from the bottom of the barrel channel. I think a 1/8 thick washer inletted into the stock would do. Between this washer and the bottom of the 1/2 deep hole I think 3/16 of wood would suffice.
So from the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the stock 13/16 minimum. the photo is showing the band at 12.5 inches from the receiver, at 10 inches there is some obvious distortion in the band but I am sure tension would pull it flush with the barrel all round.
With B/R's suggestion that the screw also hold the sling swivel a little more thought would have to go into this.
Stock work would need to involve drilling a 1/4 inch hole through the center of the barrel channel. I would use some sort of piloted drill to make a 1/2 pocket from the top and maybe a 7/8 pocket from the bottom. The pocket in the barrel channel would get the rectangle shape 1/2 deep with a Dremel tool. Make a countersunk 7/8 washer for the bottom and screw it in.

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Why make the block so wide? The Savage drawing shows the band recurved at the lower extremities and a block appearing equilateral. Is the band not readily amenable to a bit of bending to allow a smaller block?

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You are right I thought the width would have been 1/2 inch also from the illustration. The band material is .025 thick and about as springy as feeler gauge stock. I was afraid to bend it more thinking I would get a permanent deformation. The 2 ends are bent out on purpose and the getting the width down to 1/2 may work correctly with those bends. I still have all the tools in the lathe so I can do a couple more. I will try one at .6 and .5 inches. If the .6 works without feeling like I am permanently deforming the band then I will try the .5 inch.
Also need to rethink what bottom of the stock will need, a 7/8 inch washer there would look terrible even if it was coned to sort of match the contour of the stock.
Brownels has a couple of "barrel bands " in their catalog. Maybe they have an online photo. I can tell nothing from their print illustration.
The attached photo shows the top of the band, nothing moved since the first photo. Matches the barrel radius pretty well at 12.5 inches.

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FWIW - My two cents - I would make the nut in a trapazoid shape. The longer parallel side would be at the top. I would groove that side to fit close to the barrel.

The angled sides would be as long as necessary or desired. A cross hole through the angled sides would accomodate a cross-pin, notched at the ends, to link with the band.

The short parallel side, at the bottom of this rig, would be drilled and tapped for desired screw or de-tachable swivel stud.

I do not see merit in keeping the barrel-band 'sides' parallel. If they are drawn inward, less wood will need to be removed.

butlersrangers wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 4:17pm:

FWIW - My two cents - I would make the nut in a trapazoid shape. . .

I think that idea is worth at least fifty cents. Solves a whole bunch of fabrication and fitting problems!

Even though the trapezoid has some desirable is not doable without some expensive tooling or shop built fixtures. I did a .6 and .5 inch copies. The .6 is just a bit wider than the barrel at 12.5 inches, the .5 is definitely narrower than the barrel. I did get both on the barrel the .6 started to get tight about 13.5 inches out and could be pushed to 12.5 easy enough. It did not scratch the bluing as the edges of the strap are rounded somewhat. The .5 had to be started on the barrel with some force. the barrel is cut off at 18 inches. Without prebending the strap it will be difficult to get it mounted behind the sight on Jim's barrel. I will try to get it so that it can be wrapped around the barrel and get the nut properly engaged behind the sight with either of the 2 smaller nuts.
We will let Jim see how much room he has on the fore end and bend to fit that nut. We want to see how wide the fore end is at 12.5 inches from the front of the receiver and how deep from the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the stock at that point.

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Awesome work FredC. We're at our cabin right now but I'm anxious to get home to measure the barrel and stock width and depth from 12.5" out from the receiver. Direct attachment of the sling swivel to the barrel band mount screw ideally would provide the most strength, but appears to cause difficulty with design to accommodate that.

If the swivel stud can be installed relatively close to the the barrel band, wouldn't the rigidity obtained by the stock's attachment to the barrel band provide adequate strength to prevent stock fracture?

THANKS to you for your interest, expertise, and work on this issue

Quote "Direct attachment of the sling swivel to the barrel band mount screw ideally would provide the most strength, but appears to cause difficulty with design to accommodate that."
Not necessarily, it could be the easiest attachment, if the
swivel is heal be a single screw. I have not tapped these nuts yet. if you find a swivel that uses a 1/4 inch or 10-32 screw in the center and is meant to be full tightness I can tap the nut with the appropriate thread.

Quote "If the swivel stud can be installed relatively close to the barrel band, wouldn't the rigidity obtained by the stock's attachment to the barrel band provide adequate strength to prevent stock fracture?" This could work as well.

What to do with the hole in the bottom of the stock? A pain 7/8 countersunk washer would not look right.  I like Dick's term escutcheon, so lets call it that instead of washer. If you like the color of the aluminum bonze in the photo, I could round the ends and drill the appropriate hole in the center to be a relative snug fit to keep it from wallow then letting your swivel get loose. I have a small pile of these aluminum bronze ends from a production job we did 20 years ago. It does not seem to tarnish or discolor with age. How would you or a gunsmith make the inset in the stock for a escutcheon? I would do it on a milling machine, but it has been done other ways for centuries now.
The band took a set from forcing it on to the barrel I was able to pull the nut out of the band easily and have no doubt it will install as easily. It does have enough tension when installed that it will hold the nut fairly tight when lowered into the stock and be located so you can start the screw.

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With sincere apologies to the fine craftsman and machinists involved, I think this thing is going off the rails with complexity. When done, everything will be concealed except the top of the band, the slots cut in the wood and the bottom screw with its' escutcheon. What goes on "in the hole" could (should) be as simplistic (even fugly) as possible, especially for those who just want a barrel holder. Adding the swivel to the mix might introduce additonal issues, depending on what style is used. Just my .02 - wish I could work on this at the bench, but my "shop" (such as it is, i'm only a tinkerer) is not available at present, nor will it be for several months.

We are kind of waiting to hear from Jim how thick the stock is out there around 12.5 inches. He will need to carve out a 1/2 deep hole about 3/4 wide and about 9/16 lengthwise under the barrel.
Dick, how thick would the stock need to be so a 1/2 round escutcheon would not pull through the stock when the barrel band is tightened? Maybe 1/4 inch? From the photo I am not sure he had that much, that is why I thought of the elongated escutcheon.
You will have a lot more experience that me on how to do stock work without machine tools. I am thinking out loud here, I could take short piece of steel the size of the barrel and drill a precisely square and centered hole though it. This bar could be clamped into the stock fore end and after lining it up, the 3/16 or 1/4  hole could be drilled the stock. The rectangular hole under the barrel fudged out with a Dremel and burr bits.
Not sure if a piloted 1/2 drill could be found commercially or if it would have to be fabricated. Careful use of a hand drill or drill press could do the inset for the escutcheon. I like that word I wanted to call it a washer, ferrule or something else. Now I need to learn how to pronounce it and spell it without copying and pasting.
I have a bunch of steel bar ends, making a oversize  escutcheon to fit the hole with a tight hole for the screw can be done in minutes. Since Jim has time maybe with others input we can figure out how to do this easily.
Those saddle rings on carbine stock, I know the SA would have done them with a dedicated machine how would a stock maker do it without a milling machine? 

I'm basing my thoughts on something I saw in the Rifleman from the 40's or 50's when Krag were hot topics for sporterizing. To be sure, vertical spacing under the barrel is limited. That is why I like the simple strap, overlapped at the bottom, with a trapezoidal nut above it - the whole thing should take up no more than 9/16" or so. By inserting the block between the straight strap ends, and pinning it on the sides, a huge amount of valuable space seems to be wasted, at least to my eye.

The screw might have to be home-made. If you were going to fit QD swivels like Uncle Mike's, you'd need to drill a hole through the shaft of course. Or, perhaps such base screws are available commercially. You also need a shoulder to draw against the escutcheon (es-CUTCH-en). I suspect some such have a wood thread which is fine for a modern forend, but no good for us. Screw length would have to be figured very carefully, probably by trial and error, as you need to be hard against the 1/8" inch or so escutcheon, fully engaged in the nut, yet not touching the barrel.

As to the swivel bar, without a jig and mills, you'd have to be very careful; it would be tough to get it right - that is why, when you have doubts about a "carbine" (talking trapdoors here mainly) one of the first things you look at is the bar inletting. Were I to do it, I'd first locate the hole centers VERY carefully, drill them (slightly undersize) with an old-fashioned brace and bit, then finish the cut VERY slowly with chisels and scrapers. I don't know any other way to do it.

This has been a great discussion!

I would use a simpler & smaller 'nut' and remove as little wood as possible.

Maybe an inside threaded metal tube with a cross pin, peened-over on the ends, to mate and  interlock with the Savage  barrel-band.

The threaded-tube could serve as a kind of pillar and be trimmed to length. I would file a radius or 'V' on the top of the tube. Its length would have been adjusted so that when assembled to the band and slid to the desired place up the barrel taper, it would eventually contact the barrel and 'lock' into a semi-firm vertical position.

The threaded-tube would also be adjusted to control the depth it penetrates into the Stock forearm. A stepped hole in Stock would accommodate the threaded-tube while allowing a bottom anchor screw to bear against wood.

Some wood removal would be necessary to clear the legs of the Savage band. If the legs angle inward instead of being parrallel, less wood removal is necessary.

Another option would be to forget the band and dovetail a stud right into the barrel. The "stock stud" for a Winchester 67 could be about right.

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Parashooter,
I have one of those 67 Winchesters. It was my mother's gun and given to me when I was 8! Would not be politically correct to give a child a rifle today.
It would certainly require a smaller hole to fit that into a Krag stock. Also it is fairly strong as I do not think any looseness has developed in mine. I can think of a couple of down sides,
Driving that dovetailed stud into the barrel will cause stress on the barrel actually bending it. How much? I do not know. Now we are back to a machinist or gunsmith doing the work.
I would like to this to be something a careful person with a few hand tools could do in the garage and get professional looking results.
When Dick mentioned using a brace and bit, it gave me an idea on a couple of hand cranked cutters that would make the job easy with the Savage band. Did a search for inletting for this Savage band and found nothing but saw a photo of bedding done on both sides afterward. Not a bad idea if Jim's stock is free floated in that area. Also I found mention of barrel bands being added to Krags and the reason it was a good idea but that was it.

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FredC wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 3:49pm:

. . .a couple of down sides, Driving that dovetailed stud into the barrel will cause stress on the barrel actually bending it. How much? I do not know. Now we are back to a machinist or gunsmith doing the work. I would like to this to be something a careful person with a few hand tools could do in the garage and get professional looking results.

If the dovetail were cut for a sliding fit (rather than driven), it might not bend the barrel. Also seems zillions of rear sights have been tightly dovetailed into barrels without ill effect.
I've cut a few barrel dovetails using nothing more than triangular files. (Might be ugly but would be hidden inside forestock.) Barrel steel is usually pretty easy to hand file.

Parashooter,
You are right they are a slip fit not pressed in. Mine looks nothing like the photo. Mine is .405 x .502 inches, the dovetail in the barrel is almost twice as deep as a sight dovetail at 1/8. Also mine is not reduced in size as the photo, same size all the way to the end. If anyone wants to try this the threads in mine are #12 fine thread.
It has been 40 years since I took mine apart when I put the scope on it. The electrical friction tape repair was done before I got it and maybe before my mother got it also. Well you gave me an incentive to clean and lube it. Thanks.
Went back and looked at the parts assembly photo, completely different, on mine the spring goes through a hole in this dovetail stud. That is why my stud looks so much larger than the photo.

Winchester modified the stock stud design over the years. Early ones are as you describe, like the old Model 68 in this photo -

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Hi FredC and All,

Sorry for late reply. Tried to get on the forum this morning from my office today, but forgot my password and after several tries decided to wait until I got home. The issue for my dad's old Model 1899 sporter is that trying to measure the stock 12.5 inches fro the receiver puts it beyond the actual length of the forestock. I have enclosed a photo. From one of the previous posts the barrel diameter may be too large to accommodate the band. At the 11" the stock is .801" deep and 1.310" wide. Plan B?

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RomeoJim wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 12:02am:

. . . Plan B?

See reply #33 above for one "Plan B".

Jim,
At what point were you wanting to attach the sling swivel?  I would think You would want to be on the actual wood and not the black extension. With the thin area under the magazine box I think the attachment point from the barrel and stock ought to be close together if not 2 widely separated points of stress could bend or break the stock in the weak area.  You never plan to fall when carrying a rifle but it does happen.
Parashooter's idea with the smaller Win #67 dovetailed nut is not a bad solution. Out there around 8 or 9 inches the barrel is even thicker and if it is also OK for your swivel location it could work.
Another thing that was done in days gone by was installing a "beauty ring" next to the receiver, it was a steel tapered tube and some had lugs welded to the bottom for attachment a point for a screw was run through the bottom of the stock. the beauty ring made the transition from the receiver diameter to the barrel a little more graceful but it would be a long way from your swivel attachment point. 
Will you attempt to do this your self or have a gunsmith do it? Do you already have files, drill bits, a hand drill, maybe an old fashioned brace and bit, a vice big enough to hold the stock plus padding. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat, I think I could do as Parashooter mentioned, file a flat bottomed groove in the barrel then do the dovetail cuts with a triangular file with a ground safe edge. If you have a nearby machine shop they will have bar ends you could practice on if not I can send you a couple. If you do not already have all this stuff, it might be less expensive to have a gunsmith do it.

Thanks FredC and everyone else for all of your input on this issue.

I found the item pictured below on ebay a while back but had rejected it because it would require the use an old fashioned military style sling with simple loops for the forestock which eliminates quick disconnection as an option and in addition would require some significant and rather precise modification of the stock to install. Butlersrangers ad posted a photo of a similar fix using a 1903 band earlier. The seller on ebay had this part listed as originally belonging to a Krag, though I'm uncertain if it actually is. However, it may be possible to make this part work with some careful stock modification. Any ideas?

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Hi Jim,

This project of mine is far from completion but since we're on the subject of barrel bands I thought I'd jump on the band wagon.

The stock is an old aftermarket and the rifle is a cut down 1898 krag.

I'm shooting for a sporterized military scout style kinda look which will eventually include a long eye relief scope.

I'm still shaping and roughing things out, however, this is what I've got so far.

I used/attached ebony wood to the end of the forearm and pistol grip heel and I'm in the process of fitting the barrel band.

Eventually I'm going to inlet the back of the stock for a sling swivel.

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Nothing wrong with a Krag rifle barrel-band and a full width sling.

I'm thinking about maybe finally using that African Nile Crocodile sling I purchased a few years back... or is it alligator? :-/

Nah!... Maybe not.

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Like PETA doesn't bitch enough already. Displaying the hide of an 'Endangering Animal' !!!

Wait a minute... I believe I meant to say "Faux African Nile Crocodile Rifle Sling!!!"

For your penance, wear it with the rough side down.

Very nice work, Local Boy. That looks great! Will that barrel/stock band looks just like the one I have. Have you found that there is enough retention from the compression of the ring by tightening that bottom screw to permit actual use of a sling?

If not, although I wouldn't want to do this, drilling small holes on both sides of the band to enable screwing it directly to the stock would provide retention.   

Any thoughts?

This thread took a funny turn with the crocodile sling. I guess  bumps side down could keep the sling from sliding off your jacket in the winter.
Local boy, did you make a template to size the stock when you were working it down? I could see making a template from these fake credit cards that the credit card companies send. My thought would be to make one fit an original Krag stock then enlarge the template a little so the stock will be oversize, then gradually work the stock down fit the barrel band. Your photos look good you must have done something right, maybe you can elaborate on the procedure that you used.

Just to be clear, I was not complaining about the crocodile turn,
I got a good chuckle out of that.

If the barrel-band tightly clamps against the forearm wood, it is not likely to move while rifle is slung.

The band may move forward during sustained shooting.

A near invisible solution would be one pin glued into a 'blind' hole at the bottom of the forearm.

Thank you Jim for the kind words!

I believe there should be enough retention from the band compression, SO FAR.  I’m sure the band will loosen over time due to the wood naturally expanding/contracting.  Also repeated installation/removals and sustained firing will probably have some effect.  To deal with some of the problems mentioned I’m leaving enough wood, where the band will be positioned, to allow for tightening of the band screw for more compression if needed.

I’m still toying with the idea of drilling a hole through the stock and using a barrel band retaining pin… However, BR’s suggestion gave me and idea that might work!  This website I found has spring locating pins that may be the ticket.  I’ll have to do more research.

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Sorry Fred for getting off-topic,  :D

The stock could have been used, as is, when I received it but I thought it was too clunky and needed something.  Since the stock is not an original Krag stock I wasn’t too concerned about dimensions being correct.  I’m just eyeballing and free-hand-shaping to my particular taste.  I tend to rush things and make mistakes so I’m taking my time and removing a little wood here and a little wood there trying not to make any serious errors.

I like the “credit card template” suggestion and will have to file it away for future reference.  At a recent gun show I came across a Model 1899 Krag carbine, with a milled barrel tip for a bayonet, and thought it might be a nice project for a PC or BO rifle.  The credit card template may come in handy!

Local Boy, very nice work on the bbl band. I'm thinking that I'll steal your idea for my scout build. It's probably not going to make the scout weight limit. I've got 2 very different looking stocks to play with, an old fagen and a checkered mystery stock. Both need a refinishing. Supposed to warm up tomorrow so I'll shoot some on paper and zero my scope.

Since Jim is not able to use the Savage band, if anyone else wants to try it that has more meat in the 12 1/2 inch area, I will make a steel version of the nut and tap the desired threads in it for as a no charge experiment.

Hi Fred,
I been thinking about that Savage barrel band idea of yours. Will the barrel contour bee too wide for the barrel band if placed 9" from the front of the receiver ring? If not, other than inletting the stock slightly  to accommodate  the band at the barrel itself, how much internal reduction would be needed to accommodate the retaining nut and the rest of  the band?

Jim 

I checked on my take off barrel, at 9" from the receiver there is a mark from the original SA band, I think. I tried the 1/2 wide aluminum "nut" and the band can be forced to that point, I am fairly certain the band will pull to fit the barrel there. The depth of the pocket under the barrel is a little than 7/16 and still needs to be about .7inches wide. The barrel is .728 at that point so the recess will need to be made for .778 wide to accommodate the barrel plus band thickness. Other than the recess for the band thickness nothing out of the way will show from the barrel side.
So on the barrel side you need a rectangular pocket .778 wide and 1/2 long and almost 1/2 deep. If I was doing it, I would use a piloted 1/2 drill to rough the pocket and put the corners in with a Dremmel type tool. For the escutcheon recess possibly use the same drill to make a pocket 1/2 diameter and 1/8 to 3/16 deep. If you have at least 1/4 left for the escutcheon to pull against it should not cave in the stock at that point. So is you stock about 1 inch or more thick at 9 inches? That will be the what you would measure with you calipers (top of the barrel to the bottom of the stock) minus the barrel thickness.
LocalBoy's application of the original SA band looked real professional, I am not sure if I could pull that off myself. I think I could buy a couple of hard ware store 1/2 paddle drills and make the 2 pockets easy enough. I need to go buy one but I am thinking of sharpening the shank side into a cutting edge and pulling the drill through the centered pilot hole.

Hi Fred,

Just measured the stock and found at 9 inches is is .91" in depth and the stock is 1.306" wide at 9". Unfortunately not much room with this particular stock.

Jim

It turned out at the point Jim picked there is plenty of room for a Savage barrel band. PDFs are on the list of attachments, so we will try to post a cross section drawing of Jim's stock with the hardware installed.

Well I did attach the PDF, when I view it the only way I know to get out is to close the program. The ESC key does not bring you back to the post. Maybe someone that knows can tell us how to get back to the post after viewing the PDF.  Right clicking on the attachment will allow you to download or view the attachment without kicking you off the website.

Anyway the drawing shows 1/2 the screw and 1/2 of the escutcheon in the stock for clarity. On the right the complete screw and escutcheon. I could have done the stock work on the milling machine faster than I could have explained how with the tools and fixtures on sporterizing howto. The trick here is to make a kit that will allow someone with limited stock working skills to do a accurate work and pleasing appearance when finished. I did a mock up on a piece of 2 X 4 and think the tools will work. I will reduce the photos to manageable size on the next post.

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Handling .pdf attachments is a function of browser settings. Not a problem with the good ones.

If find it useful to post images as .gif or .jpg instead, making them visible inline.

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Thanks, Parashooter!
More photos.
The first is the basic parts of the kit, the escutcheon is pressed into the 2 X 4 mock up, 3/4 bar end with band and first 1/2 mock up nut, finished nut and screw, pull drill and brass handle, and drill guide in back.
Second photo is the drill guide on the 2 X 4 with a rough barrel channel.
Third photo, using the pull drill with a tap driver for a handle (turned by hand). The brass handle will replace the tap driver. Technically this pull drill is a pull counterboring tool, pull drill saves typing.
Forth photo checking the escutcheon pocket depth with digital calipers behind the pull drill.

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Last photo of the kit, will ship it to Jim today.
Shows the rough pocket first drilled then partially shaped with a Dremel tool.  The bar end with mock nut and band will be used to gauge while finishing the pocket. The brass escutcheon is also included. The round portion of the pocket was made with the pull drill and my heavy Milwaukee drill, a lighter drill would have more finesse and control. The end of the pull drill is .370 deep. So you drill till the end is flush with the barrel channel then quit. The Dremel will be used to make the pocket deeper to clear the band ends.
  Hobby knives and chisels will be used for the band clearance. Just a plug for Excel hobby knives, they come with a much sharper edge then the better known X-Acto tools.

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This is a late follow up to Jim's barrel band installation. I made the fit of the escutcheon a little tight and Jim had a mishap and made the recess under the stock too deep. I made him a washer from a hard engineering plastic to take up the space and get the escutcheon flush with the stock again.  The last I talked to Jim he had not installed the front sling swivel. The intended swivel was the reason for doing this band, as I could just see a jerk on the sling breaking the stock if the front portion was not tied to the barrel with a band.

I contacted Numerich about the bands and they have about 1300 on hand, but no nuts or screws. I asked about me making the nuts for them and they seemed to have no interest in them or selling a batch of the bands to me at a discount.

I am going through a busy patch at work but when it slows down I may be able to make more of the nuts and escutcheons for KCA members in the future if others want to do this.

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Happy Summer Everyone!!

I have my Dad's old model 1899 Krag carbine nearly completed except for some minor cosmetic repairs. I figured I should post a couple of photos of the nearly complete project that wouldn't have been possible without FredC's expertise. The throat in the old rifle was so eroded that a 220 grain round nose could be seated as far out as I wanted without contacting any lands or groove! No wonder it had such poor accuracy. Anyway, I had Jim Albright of Albright's Firearm Services install a new Criterion carbine barrel on re-install  the old front ramp sight. Criterion states that they make their barrels to match the original contours and they do a great job with that because when I received the barreled action back from Jim, it so perfectly fit the bedding job I had done to the stock with the original barrel that no modifications were necessary. Having the Barrel band system that was so ingeniously engineered and fabricated by FredC to support the forestock, I installed a pair of studless push-button release sling swivels fore and aft and I'm in business for the upcoming firearm deer season here in Michigan. I'm currently working up loads for the newly barreled Krag and so far the best group I have obtained was 0.8" using 150 grain Barnes bullets and 48grains of IMR 4350 powder. I can post other pics of the progress if anyone's interested. I'm taking it out this weekend to attempt  finalize my deer loads using some 150 grain Nosler round nose bullets.....

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I forgot to add that the sighting in was done at 100 yards and the chronograph showed an average velocity of 2,533 fps

I forgot to ask of the scope mount is still in production? If so others may want to see the details of the no drill scope mount.
Sure a nice looking sporter.

Great Job RomeoJim!!! Hope you have lots of fun shooting your rifle and success harvesting a deer next hunting season.

Kudos to FredC for his fine/superb craftsmanship skills and BR for resurrecting the Savage band idea.

I may have to order a few of FredC's band solutions just to have them on hand for future builds!!!

I still think Leroy Rice had a brilliant solution.

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"I still think Leroy Rice had a brilliant solution." Quote
I like it also, but I did not think they are still in production. Looks like it might slip around a factory sight. Being a production machinist I am not proficient in bendy things so I would not know how to make it.   :-)
Also it might be springy with a sling and let the forearm move around, or not?

The 'Rice' barrel-band is not made anymore. I believe the (Elyria, Ohio) company 'disappeared' during the early 1960's.

The attached description explains the installation.

Tightening the 'slotted-nut' would have drawn the band into its barrel channel inletting, preventing the band opening-up.

I don't have one of these barrel-bands and have just seen them in photographs.

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Thanks FredC for mentioning about the S & K No drill scope mounts which are made for a variety of older military style rifles. I also have one on my Dad's re-barreled (.30-06) Karab. 98b Mauser. They are still being manufactured by S & K Scope Mounts LLC, 70 Swede Hollow Road, Sugar Grove, Pennsylvania Zip 16350. Their phone number (800) 578-9862 . Here's a link to their website :    (You need to Login

Below is a photo of my Dad's old Mauser with a no-drill S & K Scope Mount just to show how one looks on a different style of rifle

About 25 years ago and I had started discussed taking a guided hunting trip for Caribou in Quebec. That winter without him knowing it I sneaked it from their summer condo and had it re-barreled for him with a Douglas Air Guaged barrel and then I modified the original stock, by adding a recoil pad, a burled walnut fore end and grip cap, glass bedding the receiver and free floating the barrel. Then I checkered the stock and used an S & K Scope mount to put a nice scope on it (Not the one that's currently on it). By the time I was done with it and was able to present it to him as a  gift for him to take on our Caribou hunt he had suddenly encountered such serious health problems that the docs wouldn't permit him to take such aa trip. Still bums me out to think about it. If I had only started it a couple of years sooner..... Looking at it now, the forestock appears so thin I probably should have put one of FredCs barrel bands on it. 

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Would not think a 98 Mauser would need one as the trigger screws are widely spaced. The stock is not so thin under the magazine like a Krag. Also it would negate the advantages of your free floating barrel.
That said another nice looking sporter.
From other posts it is allowable here to mention scripture, a very comforting one to me is when it says the last enemy death will be brought to nothing. Would also think the same applies to aging. Something to look forward to.
Looked at you post again, you sneaked it off. So many today do that for bad reasons. Doing that to improve it and go on a once in a lifetime adventure, that is different. Hats off to you.

Thank You FredC.

It is a genuine pleasure to have gotten to know you through this forum, through our email communication and while working on this project together. There certainly are lotsa good folks in this kragcollectorsassociation. Proud to be a member!


Thanks again,

Jim

For anyone interested, there is a series in the Machinist work shop magazine about adding a barrel band to a Krag. The author inherited a partially sporterized 94 Krag and finished the project. I will try to contact him to see if he will contribute to a thread here.

For anyone interested in making a barrel band and has a few machine tools in the garage it would be an good read:
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So many ways to skin a cat.

this barrel band come off a krag sporter ..

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So many ways to skin a cat.
If I am seeing that band and clamp? correctly the clamp does double duty as a sling attachment? The screw goes into the end of the fore end?

Can the band be spread enough to go around a an original SA front sight?

Hello Krag enthusiasts,

I thought I would share some pictures of a barrel band I had on a 1894 Norwegian Krag sporter.  Possibly another idea for the barrel band do-it-yourself.  It almost looks like a Mauser type bolt extractor collar used as the band.  Then a short piece of 3/8" round stock drilled and tapped through for the sling swivel stud.  And a dovetail filed on the end to retain the band itself.  The swivel screw was just long enough to thread between the extractor collar ears and hold tension in the dovetail when assembled on the rifle.  The brass disk simply acted as an escutcheon.  I thought I would share this as it only required drilling round holes for installation, not much chisel inletting.  I am not sure who made this one but, it seems simple enough for a home project.

Regards,
sixfive

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