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Firearms >> Sporterized and unofficial modified Krags >> New/old Krag
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Message started by Bajr on Oct 8th, 2018 at 8:15pm

Title: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 8th, 2018 at 8:15pm
Just bought a Krag last week, beautiful rifle, i was hoping to get some feed back on it.
Model 1896, #65722
1899 cartouche
Dixon rear sight (with single notch and flip up peep)
Barrell is full length, the wood on front has been shortened to about 2" on the band
Stock has been refinished, it's a lighter color then most of them i've seen on line. Gunsmith at my FFL dealer said it was a fully functional shooter but wasn't much help on the details. Just got some ammo this afternoon, heading the range tomorrow.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by butlersrangers on Oct 8th, 2018 at 9:15pm
'Bajr' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

If you post some close-up and detailed pictures of your Krag, it will beget more feedback.

U.S. Krag Rifle, #65722, would have been assembled around May or June, 1897. (Because it is pre-1898, it does not really require FFL paperwork in transactions).

With an 1899 Stock "Cartouche" stamp, it is likely your stock is actually a model 1898 stock, that someone has altered in the 'bolt-recess' area, to accommodate the model 1896 action.

The light colored wood suggests it may be one of the Italian walnut stocks that were utilized during a shortage of cured Black walnut stock blanks. These Italian walnut stocks often bear 1899, 1900, and 1901 'cartouche' dates.

Although influenced by the Dickson (model 1898 sight), it sounds like your rear-sight, with its 'swing-up peep' is one of the variations of the model 1902 rear-sight.

It is neat that your Krag is still wearing a full-length barrel!

Attached pictures show the model 1896 stock 'bolt-recess' and a model 1898 'bolt-recess'. Also shown is a 'cut-down' Italian walnut model 1898 stock, that I fitted to a 'cut-down' model 1896 barreled-action.

I suggest you buy Joe Poyer's book: "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine". It is not faultless, but, it is useful with a lot of good information for about $25.00.
Krag_1896_action_002.jpg ( 139 KB | 3 Downloads )
Krag_1898_action_002.jpg ( 128 KB | 0 Downloads )
IMG_1244.JPG ( 144 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 9th, 2018 at 12:12am
Thanks for all the great information.
Unfortunately the shop in NY, I bought it from required the FFL to send it, I wanted the rifle so I wasn’t gonna make a fuss.
I’ll see if I can attach some photos when I get to my desk top, I can’t figure it out from an IPhone (operator error)

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 9th, 2018 at 3:09pm
Pictures attached
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IMG_3504.JPG ( 142 KB | 2 Downloads )

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by butlersrangers on Oct 9th, 2018 at 5:14pm
'Bajr' - Your Krag's Stock is a model 1899 carbine stock in Italian walnut.
The stock's 'bolt-handle recess' has been altered to accommodate a model 1896 action. This is obvious, because the shape is not correct.
(This work was not done by a U.S. Armory or Arsenal. They did not alter model 1898 stocks to fit model 1896 Krags).

Your rifle's rear-sight is indeed the model 1902 rifle sight.
(Both of the model 1896 Krags, that I have, are fitted with this sight. This is likely the result of many Krags being rebuilt and reconditioned in the early 1900's).

It appears to me that your gun's metal and stock have been refinished.

You have a nice looking Krag that should be a joy to shoot and use, "as is".
Its 'collector value', (approximately $300), is not great, because of alterations and refinishing.

Original and unaltered Krag Stocks have gotten very hard to find and expensive. This makes it impractical to restore your Krag to its model 1896 rifle configuration.
It is too bad that someone altered an original carbine stock, which otherwise would be quite desirable.

I am not trying to rain on your parade. This is just, my honest assessment and opinion.

On the other hand, you can get endless hours of enjoyment using and shooting such a Krag. You are not putting 'wear and tear' on an expensive and rare collectible. "Sportered" Krags are often wonderful shooters!

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:24pm
Thanks
I knew I was buying a sporterized shooter, so I’m good. But I was confused about the stock and rear site. Actually heading to the range now, it shoud shot nice with the long barrel. Nice companion to my M-1

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:49pm
Just finished up at the range, major bummer, the magazine would not feed. It work as a single shot and ejected fine :'(

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by butlersrangers on Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:16pm
Did you try switching the 'lever' on the left-side of the action 'up'? This is the "Magazine Cut-Off" lever.

It is used to block the magazine feed of cartridges so that the Krag works as a 'single-shot', holding the cartridges in the magazine in reserve.

Unless you still have an early style of "Cut-Off",  the lever should be 'up' to feed and 'down' to block. (Early cutoff-levers functioned in reverse).

In your photo the cut-off lever is in the 'down' position, which suggests things are working correctly and the cartridge feed-path is 'blocked' by the cut-off's shaft.
krag_cut-off_down_003.JPG ( 93 KB | 2 Downloads )
krag_cut-off_up_008.JPG ( 98 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by FredC on Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:18pm
It could have an easy fix. I found a couple of older threads that may be helpful using yahoo and google. I know there are more threads as I know I have contributed on at least a couple.
To help you it will be important to know what ammo, where the jam is happening. Is the feed stop installed and not buggered up.

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Forgot to say that is one nice looking Krag, if it is not original it needs to be nice looking, functional or something. You have got that covered, get the feeding fixed and that one will be alright.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:27pm
Its the early style, cut off when down. When up the round dosen't feed far enough up for the bolt to push it into the breach. It just kinda bangs onto the top of the round. Like there wasn't enough tension agaist the rounds. I didn't want to fuss around with it to much at the range. Works fine with the cut off lever down as a single shot, ejected the cartridge fine.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by butlersrangers on Oct 10th, 2018 at 8:22pm
Actually, your description of your cut-off function, sounds like you have the 'late style' of model 1896 lever.

If you explore older threads on the KCA Forum, you will find discussions of  Krag magazine function problems and suggested things to look for and remedies.

Attached photo shows model 1892 cut-off lever and a late model 1896 cut-off.
The later cut-off lever function was changed, so that the lever is 'up', to feed cartridges from magazine.

Attached sketch shows function of an early model 1896 lever and how the cut-off shaft blocks cartridge-feed..
Krag_cut-off_levers_1892_n_late_1896_type.jpg ( 20 KB | 0 Downloads )
krag_drawing_2edit.jpg ( 205 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 11th, 2018 at 12:47am
Thanks for all the help, guys.
The cut off is in the down position with this model. If I fuss with it, the first of 5 rounds will feed about 50% of the time. Seams to help if I bump the gate once it's closed.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by butlersrangers on Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:44am
Off the top of my head - some common things that cause Krag magazine cartridge-feed problems:

1. Follower-carrier assembly 'sluggish' because of filth, dried & hardened grease and crud that impairs movement.

2. Curved flat-spring that powers carrier-assembly and tensions magazine-gate is bound up with dried crud, weak, or broken.

3. Pin that hinges follower to carrier-arm has moved out of position and is dragging on receiver.

4. Wrong parts - An 1898 carrier-arm has found its way on to a model 1896 action.

5. Loose side-plate - Plate must be in contact with receiver wall and its screw should be 'snug'.

6. Dented/damaged side-plate or accumulation of dried, hardened grease on curved interior surface.

Cleaning all the surfaces of the feed-path and component parts, and some light lubrication, usually solves feed problems.





kragschematic_008.jpg ( 252 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:44am
Side plate a screw are flush and tight.
Everything seams clean, but i’ll give it a once over.
What’s the normal tension against the cartridges, because mine feels pretty weak?

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:47am
Nice graphics, thanks.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by boomer on Oct 11th, 2018 at 12:25pm

Bajr wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:44am:
Side plate a screw are flush and tight.
Everything seams clean, but i’ll give it a once over.
What’s the normal tension against the cartridges, because mine feels pretty weak?

In my short experience with 2 Krags, I wouldn't classify the tension against the cartridge in either of them as anything approaching weak - but that is subjective. 

The 98 sporter I have wouldn't properly feed the final cartridge, even though the pressure seemed substantial. A spring change corrected the problem (I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference in the way the spring 'felt').  If all the parts are clean, correct and properly fitting, a weak spring may be the problem.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 18th, 2018 at 9:14pm
Thanks everyone for all the good feed back, cleaning and lube haven't helped. I'm thinking a new spring is the next step.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by Bajr on Oct 31st, 2018 at 8:38pm
Success!  :D
Replaced the spring and it feeds like a champ.
Thanks again to everyone for all the good advice.

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by butlersrangers on Oct 31st, 2018 at 9:08pm
'Bajr' - Thanks for letting us know how things turned out.

Now, you are the 'Resident Cartridge-Feed Expert'.  ;D

Title: Re: New/old Krag
Post by boomer on Nov 1st, 2018 at 11:45am
Glad to hear all is working well.

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