I just pulled the trigger on an 1899 Krag Carbine. I’m pretty happy with it overall. There’s a few character marks, but the bore is bright and the landings are strong. The patina seems to be consistent overall with the possible exception of the front hand guard. While I believe the stock was always a carbine stock and not a cut down, it is missing proof and cartouche marks. It also has a rear sling swivel that looks to be added and an upper band with a sling swivel. I’m wondering if this was possibly an engineers carbine. Any help or information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

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Welcome to the forum. They tell us often that Krags are addictive here.
Your carbine certainly looks nice, others will be able to tell you a lot of details. A closer look at the front sight will enable you to learn a lot more.

A few more

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FredC, thanks for the warm welcome. Here’s a pic of the front sight.

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Boy, that Krag Carbine sure looks clean and in great shape! Can you give a close up of the receiver with its serial number? That will give us more to go on.

You do have a nice original 1901 carbine rear sight. The hump in front of the sight on the hand guard protects the sight when shoved into a scabbard used when on a horse and slinging the Krag. The hand guard does look to be a slightly lighter color than the stock but that's just fine.

Great to hear that the bore is in good condition. It should be a great shooter if you choose to do so. Most of us love to reload and shoot our Krag rifles and carbines.

The sling swivels are add-ons but I don't know much about the Engineer Krags. Someone else will inform us about those.

Congratulations with your new purchase and welcome to the KCA.! This is the best place to learn about your new Krag obsession.

Your front sight looks correct for an original carbine, the wear on it looks like it made many trips in and out of the scabbard. So that matches expectations. Screw drivers slots shown are all nice and clean, not damaged by cheap screw drivers. It just keeps looking better as you post more photos.

Hi Mike4MSU,

Welcome to the KCA Forum!

You have a very nice carbine!

A nice clear picture of the serial number may help us determine more information about your carbine.

Have you measured the barrel length?... Just stick a rod down the barrel to the bolt face (closed bolt) and mark the rod at the muzzle opening.  Measurement from the bolt face to the muzzle should be 22 inches.

Yours appears to be a 1899 carbine replacement stock.

Replacement stocks were commonly installed with no added cartouches or P proof marks, however they usually will include numbers next to the trigger guard.

IMHO: Some folks would say that carbine stocks should have no band or stock swivels.  I am of the opinion that certain documentation had allowed for the installment of swivels for a short time period.  I have seen too many carbines with swivels to believe that it is random occurrence.  I'm talking about the type of swivels that have been inletted and installed on the rear of stock such as yours.  I believe that kind of inletting would be performed by the armory who manufactured the stock.  Most folks like me would install a single screw type swivel and call it good.

You may want to check the front sight and see if it has a "C" stamp indicating it to be a carbine sight.

The rear sight is a nice 1901 carbine sight and has been going for $250-$350 at certain auction sites.  $500+ is the norm at gun parts web sites.

The stock appears to have been sanded (post install) but that's about par for the course.

The handguard may be a reproduction?

All in all a very nice clean carbine.

Happy shooting!

Great info, thank you all. It might have been a replacement stock as you can see a number 45 by the trigger guard. The barrel is indeed 22” and I’ve attached photos of both the S/N and front sight. There is a marking on the blade, but I can’t tell if it’s a c.

Mike

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Seems like your carbine started life in Jun 1900

No hits in the "Serial Numbers of Known U.S. Krags" located in the back of Mallory's book "The Krag Rifle Story."  However, it is in the company of other listed carbines!

Looks like you have a legit carbine front sight!

Thanks for the born on date and checking the list of known Krags. One remaining question is that there are two impressions or punch marks visible behind the trigger guard. They are clearly visible in a previously posted photo.  Any idea as to what may have caused it? Thank you again, this is all great information.

Mike

Front blade on my 1899 carbine.

I don't know if any 1899 blades got marked on left side.

Some 1902 carbine rear-sight bases were stamped on the 'wrong' (left) side.

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Sorry, one more question regarding the rear sight. I’ve done some searching, but haven’t found the answer yet. There appears to be a capital letter B on the side of my rear sight located between the 3 and 4. Can someone explain to me what that represents?

Thank you,
Mike

Mike,

The "B" on the side of the rear sight is a "Battle range" mark for 375 yards which was considered a commonly used distance setting for a typical battle range to shoot at. Nothing more.

Hard to say what the two filled holes were from. Almost looks like someone wanted a sling swivel in the wrong place. Maybe someone else has an idea.

Have you been able to find any factory Krag ammo yet?

Hope you plan to shoot the prize soon!

Also, you probably already know that all Krags marked "Model 1899" on the receiver were carbines. The "c" on the front site sure looks like an authentic carbine mark.

Mike,

I have been looking through Mallory's Krag Rifle reference book and on page 145 there is a picture of a Krag rifle attached to an ammunition testing machine at the Frankford Arsenal. The rifle is secured with a metal brace along the stock behind the trigger guard as well as at the point of the rear barrel band.

If you look at your carbine stock, there is an impression and slightly lightened color stock extending from right behind the trigger guard to right past the two filled holes.

My (pure) guess would be that those two holes are filled holes that may have been used to affix the carbine that this stock originally was used for (maybe your carbine) in a similar type machine for testing or fixed shooting purposes. There were some devices used for target shooting in a fixed rest .

Sound plausible?

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Whig, thanks for all the great info, it is greatly appreciated. I’ve learned more about Krags and my carbine in one afternoon than I probably could have learned in weeks or more. I think it’s entirely plausible that the marks were from some form of secured rest or fixture. Thank you for the photo.

I have a friend who owns and shoots several Krags and reloads his own ammo. I have shot his which convinced me to buy this one when it came along. I haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet, but plan to soon. Ammo is for available locally, though it’s not cheap. Reloading may be my next investment...

Mike

Many model 1899 carbines were altered by civilian owners to satisfy personal tastes.

I suspect those two plugged holes on Mike's stock could be the remains of where a wood or metal pistol-grip was anchored.

A surplus metal grip for the model 1873 Springfield use to be readily available. One of these could have been screwed to Mike's stock and repositioned for a better 'feel'.  Such a device could have made depressions in the wood similar to those on the stock in question.

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'Mike4MSU' - I posted more pictures of my 1899 carbine front-sight on my earlier post for your review.

FWIW - The rear mounting screw, on your 1901 carbine rear-sight, appears to be standing 'proud'. The screw head should be flush with the top of the sight base.
Possibly the wrong Krag sight screw has been used. (Some 1892-1896 sight- screws have a thicker head).

Your Krag model 1899 carbine, (serial number - 279965), likely was assembled around August, 1900, to September, 1900. This is just after the model 1898 carbine rear-sigh was discontinued.

It is possible, the initial sight on your carbine was the model 1896 carbine-sight. It is also probable, that your carbine was updated to the 1901 sight early in its service.

You have a nice model 1899 carbine. The only change, I would make, would be that tall rear-sight screw.

Attached photos showing correct 1901 sight screws.

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More about the Engineer Carbine taken from Mallory's "The Krag Rifle Story", 2nd edition, page 105.

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‘Local Boy’ - Thanks for the info on the engineers modification for some Krag Carbines.

‘Local Boy’, ‘Whig’ and ‘Butlers Rangers’ - Upon closer inspection of the two indentation marks behind the trigger guard, it is indeed two holes that were filled. IF this was one of the engineers carbines modified in the field, I wonder if it was the rear sling cutting jig that created the two holes.

‘Butlers Rangers’ - I removed the rear screw that was standing proud of the 1901 rear sight base. The head of the screw is too large to fit in the recess pocket of the sight base, although it looks to be the same age and patina as the rest of the carbine and sight. I went to grandpas parts and a few other places that might have the correct screw, but could only find the original longer front screws or reproduction rear screws. Until I find an original rear screw, I’ll likely leave the current one in place. Thanks for identifying the improper screw.

Mike

'Mike' - Thin headed Krag sight screws are relatively common, since at least one is used with all Krag rear sight models.

S&S Firearms (Glendale, N.Y.) has repro screws and some originals. Their catalog is viewable online.

There are a couple of vendors in the KCA 'Classifieds' that can likely supply the correct screw.

The part shows up on ebay from time to time.

I truly appreciate everyone’s input, comments and education. I’m attaching a couple more photos.

There was a 3 piece cleaning rod and oiler in the butt of the stock, I can attach photos if anyone is interested, but assume it’s nothing unusual. What I did notice is that there is the number 16 with a 44 underneath it. Any significance to the number inside the butt door?

While not the best, I’ve also attached a photo of the bore. Under light, there’s a couple of spots within the first 1/2” or so of the bore which you can see in the photo. After that, it’s quite clean and fairly shiny. Rifling is very strong throughout.

I also took the advise from ‘butlersrangers’ and found a correct period original 1901 rear sight screw which I hope to receive shortly.

Mike

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Bore is always hard to evaluate by these pictures. Looks good enough to be a good shooter. I got a nice Hawkeye borescope years ago which was one of my best non-firearm investments for my shooting hobby and business. We all know, though, that even a bad bore can shoot quite well. You just need to test different loads in your Krag to find which bullet and powder combination shoots best with your Krag. That's a big part of the fun of Krag collecting.

Those numbers on the butt plate cover are meaningless. There are some reproduction cleaning rods and oilers out there but most of what you may find around are authentic. They're nice to have for your Krag.

Thanks for sharing your pictures. Keep us informed about any further experiences. If one of us can help, we'll do our best.

The butt caps were hand fitted to the butt plate and both stamped with matching numbers.

Your butt plate should have the same numbers arranged in a similar pattern as your butt plate cover.

Always nice to find the cleaning rods and oiler in the butt stock... Unfortunately for me it's always an added expense  :'(... currently averaging $50 bucks a pop for a set.

It`s too bad that Lee still does not make the Lee Loader in 30-40. I started reloading with one almost 50 years ago with one for my sporter `98 . That was the first reloading that I ever did and it filled the bill for an inexpensive outfit that worked quite well.

I’ve currently got my eye on a Dillon 550 for about $260. Doesn’t have the 30-40 dies with it, but at a retail price of $1.60 to $2.00 it wouldn’t take much to pay for itself. Especially if I were to load 45-70 as well.

Mike

I've always used my single stage outfit for reloading my 30-40 Krag and other large rifle cartridges that I want consistent accuracy with. I just like a little more attention to each operation. I weigh out each load very carefully with most rifle rounds, especially when loading for long distance precision shooting.

But, you can't go wrong with Dillon's "No Bull$$it" guarantee! They have saved me many times over the years. I have loaded many tens of thousands of rounds on my Dillon XL650 press. Make sure you check powder weights for your loads and recheck frequently. Sometimes small variations can affect accuracy a lot.

Good luck! Keep us informed of the results.

Local Boy - As a follow up to your posted article on the engineer carbine, would you also be willing to post the information on the engineering sling referenced in Chapter 17?

Thank you,
Mike

Here ya go Mike.

Here's a site that has an example of one:

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Local Boy - Thank you very much, I couldn’t find any information online. Sounds like my next purchase should be a book on Krags. If you were to buy one, which book would it be?

Mike

To start with... probably Joe Poyer's "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine".

Full of information, readily available and at an inexpensive cost.

I wish I would have known about this earlier. I was looking for a sling for my trapdoor and had seen this sling.

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Passed on it because it didn’t look correct to me. Looking at it again, I think it was an engineer Krag sling that sold for $66. 

Finally had a chance to take her out to the range. She shoots very well, but the 220 military loads shoot stronger than I expected. The last Krag Carbine I shot was my buddies and he shoots 170(?) with a target load.

I also was lucky enough to find and buy a very nice 1903 Rock Island Arsenal engineer sling to finish her off. Great look to me.

I want to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions regarding my first Krag.  I'ts as much a joy to shoot as it is to look at.  Very cool little guns.

Mike

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You mind if I add your rifle to the KCA serial number database?

cquickel wrote on Feb 14^th, 2020 at 8:24pm:

You mind if I add your rifle to the KCA serial number database?

Of course you may add my 1899 carbine to the KCA database
S/N 279965