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Message started by Knute1 on Apr 4th, 2019 at 3:49am

Title: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 4th, 2019 at 3:49am
Here is a good read (with lots of pictures) of the Springfield Armory in the March 22, 1900 issue of "American Machinist". It starts on page 41-265 and goes to 49-273 (weird page numbering system). There is supposed to be a follow-up article in a later issue, which I will try to find, also. Unless somebody beats me to it and that would be OK.

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Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 5th, 2019 at 1:51am
The other articles can be found in the same link above. The second article starts on page 25-287. Actually, you can just go by the 3-didgit part of the page number. Of most interest to me (viewing pictures at this time and have not started reading it yet) is the stock making on page 290. The final article starts on page 311.

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 5th, 2019 at 3:01am
'Knute' - Thanks for finding this article. The Springfield Armory photos are great.

Actually, there are three installments on Springfield Armory in this collection of 'American Machinist' Articles. (I can't claim to understand the page numbering system; it seems to change or 'flip').

The first article - U.S. Armory at Springfield I, as you noted, was published March 22, 1900, pages 41-265 to 49-273.

The second article - U.S. Armory at Springfield II, was published March 29, 1900, starting 288-26 to 29-291 or 291-29 (?).

The third article - U.S. Armory at Springfield III, was published April 5, 1900, starting page 312-26 or 26-312 (?).

FWIW - I found it best to ignore page numbers and just scroll to date of article.

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 5th, 2019 at 3:50am
My favorite picture (edited to remove irrelevant text):
Am_Machinist_S_A__Assembly_rack.jpg ( 138 KB | 3 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:21am
I was excited to come across these articles, somehow I knew BR would be into it, also. There appears to be 4 rows of 24 Krag Jorgensen rifles in those racks for a total of 96. That would be about half a days work. The pictures are some of the clearest I've seen of this era.

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by psteinmayer on Apr 5th, 2019 at 11:12am
96 Brand New Krags... and what I wouldn't give to have just a couple... or even ONE!!! 

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Baltimoreed on Apr 5th, 2019 at 11:41am
Paul, that was the first thing that I did was count them too. Who knew that Krags came by the dozen. We’ve been buying them all wrong. Maybe $250,000.00 per rack for mint rifles complete with bayonets. Nice.

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 6th, 2019 at 1:19am
Where are the scabbards?

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Local Boy on Apr 6th, 2019 at 5:59pm
Keep looking Chuck...I'm sure you'll find them some where!
Krag_Rack_of_Rifles.jpg ( 132 KB | 3 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 6th, 2019 at 6:31pm
LOL - Local Boy!

Now that I'm in the Assembly Room, I'm going to stamp some of these Krags with my "C" Stamp.
CCM_-_Rack_of_Krags.jpg ( 41 KB | 1 Download )
krag_cartouche_with_C.jpg ( 30 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm
I'm not too fussy. I'll take one without a scabbard.  ::)

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by King carp on Apr 6th, 2019 at 8:19pm
Hello, i am new to the club and have a question.Were any of the krag bayonets serial numbered to the rifles? 
       Thanks KC

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Local Boy on Apr 6th, 2019 at 8:36pm
As far as I know...No Krag bayonets were stamped with serial numbers.  Just the letters US and the date of manufacture.

Some may have special unit markings and a very few were marked with a 26, on the back of the guard, indicating their use for the experimental 26 inch barrel rifle because of the slightly larger muzzle diameter.

BTW: The Krag bayonet was patterned after the Swiss Model 1889/99 bayonet which does have a serial number.  See link below:

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Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 6th, 2019 at 9:16pm
I picked up a bayonet last weekend. The only stampings include "US" and the year "1900", the same year when this article was written.
BR, I can't tell if you have some discoloration in your beard or if you are drooling. You do look like you belong there, except your Stormy Kromer hat didn't come out until 1903, missed it by just a few years. Otherwise you could fool a lot of people.  ;)

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by King carp on Apr 6th, 2019 at 9:54pm
Thanks. That does make it easier to complete a correct look for my rifle.

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 7th, 2019 at 7:48am
Some gems from the 1900 "American Machinist" articles that 'Knute' found:
AM_new_machines_SA1_3-22-1900.jpg ( 172 KB | 1 Download )
AM_new_machines_SA2.jpg ( 41 KB | 0 Downloads )
AM_mauser_sales_SA_3-29-1900.jpg ( 26 KB | 0 Downloads )
AM_museumSA-ed.jpg ( 311 KB | 1 Download )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 7th, 2019 at 7:59am
Insights on 'timing' of barrel threads and sight mounting; (barrels were made at the Water Shops):
AM_Barrel_sights.jpg ( 596 KB | 2 Downloads )
AM_barrel_thread_machine.jpg ( 92 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 7th, 2019 at 11:56am
Looks like you have been working hard, BR. Thanks for the help getting the news out.
And how about those junky captured Mausers. Surprised they found anybody to buy all those things. Heck, they didn't have a magazine cut-off and they could be loaded lickity-split to where a person could shoot them off too fast. What a waste. You couldn't even top them off after shooting a few rounds. Well, I suppose there were some that could be turned into hunting rifles.  :-? Or just hang on to them as war relics. They sure weren't as perty as our Krags (or as finely made).

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 7th, 2019 at 3:19pm
'Knute' - The truth be told, the German made Spanish Model 1893 rifles were gorgeous, when they left Berlin.

The magazine could be 'topped-up' with loose cartridges. You just had to have the bolt open to do so.

The Mauser fed by stripping cartridges from the magazine. Without a magazine cut-off, it could not meet the criteria of functioning as a single-shot, with magazine contents held in reserve. (The 1903 Springfield cleverly solved this situation).

By your tone, I think you fully understand the mental set of the 'decision makers', rather naïve with our hindsight.

Some pictures of my Oviedo Arsenal rebuilt model 1893 Mauser; it does shoot well. (I'd sure like to have a good example of a 'war capture' sold from Springfield Armory).
spanish_mauser_001.JPG ( 72 KB | 0 Downloads )
spm-1_001.JPG ( 101 KB | 0 Downloads )
spm-4_001.JPG ( 103 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 7th, 2019 at 3:34pm
From the "American Machinist" material, 'Knute' located, photographs of Krag stock making machinery.

I believe the L to R order demonstrates: outside shaping, cutting of barrel-channel, and machining of magazine-cut.
AM_machining_stocks.jpg ( 163 KB | 1 Download )
AM_making_stocks.jpg ( 68 KB | 0 Downloads )
AM_more_stock_process.jpg ( 51 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 7th, 2019 at 4:14pm
Yeah, I was playing the devil's advocate from a period standpoint, and like you said the mindset of anti-Mauser, our's is better. Until the Mauser design was realized in the US and then copied for the 1903 Springfield. Went full circle as we know. I have a 98 Mauser receiver in a 35 Whelen custom and know of its virtues.

I wonder where all of the machinery went. Some stay at the Armory? Junk heap? Some other company or individuals get them?

I am not a machinist, but part of my job is overseeing a machine shop for a tire plant. We have a Bullard turn table from WWI era all the way up to CNC machines. It is interesting to see that the tooling has not changed much, just the machinery that applies them.

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Local Boy on Apr 7th, 2019 at 10:46pm
Here's a couple of pages from my Bannerman reproduction catalogue dated May 1910.

Sorry but the repro catalogue page copies are not the greatest.
Bannerman_Spanish_Mauser__a_.jpg ( 169 KB | 1 Download )
Bannerman_Spanish_Mauser_2__a_.jpg ( 169 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 7th, 2019 at 11:39pm
Here is a website with a lot pictures related to a captured Spanish Mauser. I think that C1936 is a serial number?

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Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by butlersrangers on Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:04am
That is a nice Loewe made model 1893 Spanish Mauser. It is unlikely a SAW "captured" Mauser.

One of the photos shows the rifle's rear-sight slide. It is a slide developed by Oviedo Arsenal, in a later time period. These slides replaced the original German design that was in use during the SAW period.

This retrofit work was done in Spain.

The presence of the Oviedo sight-slide makes it very likely, even if rifle #C1936 was used during the SAW, it went back to Spain and was not a "captured" rifle.

(BTW - My Loewe model 1893 Spanish Mauser came with an Oviedo sight-slide. The Oviedo designed slide was numbered to match the last three digits of my Loewe rifle's serial number).

Title: Re: Springfield Armory Article - 1900
Post by Knute1 on Apr 8th, 2019 at 9:47pm
Looks like I chased the rabbit down the wrong hole. But if you like old guns, click on the parent directory in the last link and you will find a lot of guns take with high quality photos, even an 1896 Krag.

Try this link:

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