hi this is my first post as I have just purchased at auction a 1894 saddle ring carbine with a serial no date of 1896. As of yet i am awaiting delivery in about 2 weeks. the only thing I have found out about it is the manufacture date. I am not shure how many photos i can upload but the one showing the receiver with the rifle details has two later addition screws and wondered if they were for a scope mount? or something similar

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I am not even close to good at recognizing original carbine stuff. The first thing I saw was the saddle ring, could be OK. Then the plugged scope mount screws.
The thing that really looks wrong is the front sight. I guess there could be a slot under the added sight where the original Krag sight was removed??? If not it may be a cut down barrel.
Details of the rear sight may be necessary to identify it.

Hi GHS and welcome to the official Krag Collector's site where we love to see Krags in any shape, condition and design. We'll help you answer questions about what you have bought and, preferably, help you figure out what to buy in the future.

I'll give a few observations about your new purchase from the pictures you have kindly posted.

You have coming to you a very late Model 1894 Krag rifle that has been cut down with a shortened barrel possibly to 22 inches to resemble a carbine. You measure the barrel length by sliding a cleaning rod down the EMPTY barrel with the bolt closed and measure the barrel length at the end where the cleaning rod and the muzzle meet. Many Krag rifles were considered to be too long with a 30 inch barrel for hunting, so, they were frequently cut down to carbine length to handle better in the field. They still shoot great as cut down rifles but they are not considered collectible when cut down like this because they have been altered from original military configuration. The screw holes are where a scope mount was used before.

Your cut down rifle also has been neatly fit into a real saddle carbine stock, it appears from the pictures. That stock has a good bit of value if it is not damaged or cut itself. The original Krag rifle front sight has been removed when the barrel was cut and a Springfield Model 1903 (from 1905 rifles) was affixed to the end of the barrel. This was commonly done on these "sporterized" Krags.

I can't see the rear sight well but it looks like an older Model 1894 sight but I'm not sure. Krag carbines always had different sights than rifles because of the shorter barrels and different ballistics. They were always marked somewhere with a "C" to designate a carbine adjusted sight.

The sporterized rifle you have looks quite nice overall. Look at the "Sporterized" Krag section of this website to read more about your type rifle.

And, please post more pictures for us. Include more of the stock and rear sight.

'GHS' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

It appears you have a U.S. model 1892 rifle that has been cut-down. Your Krag, #23195, was likely built around October to November, 1895.
(I don't know exactly why it was 'dated 1894', but, there are other rifles, near your serial number, that are similarly marked).

Your stock is a cut-down rifle stock, on which some one has installed a carbine sling-bar. There is likely a wood 'patch' at the butt-toe area of the stock, where a sling-swivel once resided. There is probably a patch or 'plug' at the forearm tip.

It looks like your rear-sight is a model 1892 rifle sight.

Your front-sight and barrel 'crown' are not correct for a U.S. Krag.

Your Krag was likely altered by a civilian for Hunting purposes.

Thank You gentlemen when the cut down rifle arrives I will try to post more photos

Oh and just to keep things kosher, it is a "KRAG", not "Kraig". Common mistake.

Thanks for sharing and we'll anxiously await more pictures.

These are great rifles to collect and shoot.

Just one thing - No "i" in "Krag" >:(

the one photo i did not include is a half shot of the rear sight

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Yes, that is a stepped M1894 Krag rifle sight. It works well but does not have windage adjustment or fine adjustability like some of the later sights used on the Krags.

The cracked hand guard is very common and unfortunate but can be carefully glued and repaired.

If you are interested in trying to repair it yourself, let us know and we'll give you some important pointers in disassembling and repairing the hand guard and cleaning things. it will be nice to know the condition of the bore when you get it delivered.

I wonder .... maybe the OP's stock is a carbine stock.

(It could be an 1899 'long forearm' carbine stock, the variation made to update model 1896 carbines).

There may be a carbine barrel-band spring 'hiding' in the photo's glare.

Still, someone has altered the stock to accept a model 1896 'sling-bar'.

I think it is an original carbine stock. The nose looks long which would mean the saddle ring and sling bar was added but it's hard to tell. My first impression was that it was an original saddle ring carbine stock with a cut down Model 1894 rifle dropped into it. It certainly has been played with a lot so we need more close up pictures to be sure.

It's always fun being "detectives" with these Krags. And we always are learning from each other in trying to figure it all out.

Thanks for sharing!

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The 'carbine ring & bar' was no longer in use when the 'long forearm' carbine was adopted.

The carbine was being carried in a scabbard and the ring no longer had a purpose.

When a 'ring & bar' is found on an 1899 'long forearm' carbine stock, someone outside of Springfield has 'done the job' and made a fake.

BTW - I beg to differ, but, there is an "i" in Krag.

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When the Krag arrives I will add more photos especially if there is a barrel band spring  GHS

Seems to me - without looking of course - that the 1894/1895 split is (unlike all of the others) said to have been subject to overlap. This might be a good specimen to check against the published listings.

With a higher serial number like this one, that will interesting to determine.

According to Mallory, the highest "1894" is 26116, but that is SUCH an outlier, that one has to at least suspect that there might have been a transposition somewhere. FWIW, I personally believe there was no overlap.

His lowest "1895" was 23820, so an "1894" at 23195 would seem to fit the pattern, AND be at least a potential candidate for highest "1894". Too bad it has been fooled with, but that has NOTHING to do with advancing the knowledge base.

Frank was a man of GREAT attention to detail, but also one who was reluctant to make arbitrary changes - witness his insistence on not revising the clearly erroneous 8xxxxx listing, carried in SRS until the end.

To Frank's defense, to a certain extent, there is a trickle of new evidence and information, such as OP's Krag SN 23195 clearly marked "1894", that adds to the database for all of what Frank researched and wrote about.

Joe Farmer is one who has added a lot to our knowledge of Krags.

That's the great thing about this forum- we keep learning new things about our Krags.

Don't worry, Frank needs NO defending from me - I counted him as a personal friend, and was VERY sorry when he passed. Actually met him at one of Graham Burnside's annual hog roasts in IL, and later visited him at his home in MD.

Joe Farmer has done a terrific job as well. It's no secret that I am not a fan of his writing STYLE, but his intellect, and his dogged thoroughness, are on a plane that VERY few will ever reach. I made my comments without looking at his book - which I have temporarily mislaid - so perhaps he has found something more on the 94/95 thing?

Apparently, my 37045 is still the marker for highest "1896" without "Model".

You mind if I add your rifle to the KCA serial number database?