Could my RITZ Stamped Oddball Krag, which is a cutdown, be an NRA Cutdown? It seems to have all the signs of one so far that I find, what say Ye?
I have attached some photos of important areas for review. Thanks for any input, as I am trying to determine if I should have CMP Re-Barrel it, since unfortunately the chamber,,, despite the great rifling in the Barrel, is damaged, looks almost like it was intentionally done too,,, sad.
Appreciate any thoughts / suggestions...

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I've always been told that the only way to be sure that a Krag is an NRA altered Krag is to have a receipt for the work done from the NRA.

There has been so much speculation in trying to determine authentic NRA Krags that I tend to agree. You would need a receipt. Otherwise, it's just speculation. The Bannermans and NRAs and some Bubbas can all look similar without written provenance.

Interesting Krag, though, that you've shared with us. Definitely has an unusual occult history. Thanks.

KragOmatic - The plug in the tip of your forearm appears crudely done.

In fact, the wood plug appears to go all the way to the bottom of the stock, instead of just filling the lightening channel from the front. This is different than usual armory work on shortened stocks, like on 'School Rifles'.

The 1905 front-sight on your Krag appears rough, as if, it has been re-cycled. It also appears to be painted!
I imagine Benicia Arsenal used new 'banded' 1905 front-sights on the DCM/NRA carbines, when they used altered rifle barrels.

IMHO - Your Krag 'cut-down' is not a DCM/NRA carbine.













the

BTW - The NRA did not sell rifles.

The Director of Civilian Marksmanship (originally called "DCM" and now called "CMP") did sell authorized equipment to NRA members.

Attached is a copy of a page that documents the sale of a DCM carbine in 1929, to NRA member Wilbur West.

Wow, 90 years ago today!

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Looked at that receipt, I did not see a serial number. Maybe it is there and just not in the picture?

There is more than one page. The 'Serial Number' is written in pencil on previous page.

I did not post complete paperwork.

(No point in providing an image for a scoundrel to fake documentation).

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Psst! Do not let anyone know the government was responsible for "giving away" military not military grade weapons to US citizens.

Did not see the number on the first, do not want to contribute to fraud just thought it would be nice if the sales receipt had a serial number to actually authenticate a real NRA carbine. Now I know it does.
You could substitute a closer in photo and no one would know but you and me, and I am not telling. :-)

Butlersrangers;
Although the stock plug appears that way in the photo it does no go all the way to the bottom, could be the scratch on it you are seeing. I have had the stock off to confirm the plug. The sight may have been painted on the upper portion do to a previous owner having Brazed a small weld on the sight, which they also did in brazing a small Ghost Ring on the back portion of the rear sight. The front Braze was dull in the photo but looking closer you can see the Brass colored area on the tip. My main concern, since this is filled with so many unusual mods, like the small compass in the stock, is weather or not to Re-barrel it, as a shooter, or just savor it the way it is. I don't want to be a Krag Butcher if it has any Historical significance the way it sits. I like the weapon, and it's features, just not safe to shoot as is. I do have another Krag 23" shorty that shoots fine and was put through the butcher shop before I acquired it :D.
So thoughts and comments are appreciated. ;)
PS Nice Paperwork example, noticed it on one of your other posts before this. Thanks for sharing it here though.

PPS;
Here is a photo of the tiny Compass on the top edge of the Buttstock... It still works excellent, and looks quite dapper!  ;D

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Compass on a Krag is "Dapper" indeed! Nice!

Too bad about your damaged chamber. By making alterations, it's not likely you would be in risk of damaging a "DCM carbine".

You should look for a good deal on a 'cut-down' replacement barrel and make that into a 'Dream Krag'.

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Butlersrangers;
I did find a used one in good condition with the 03/05 type base already on it for 75.00. The CMP situation offers a new Criteron Carbine reproduction barrel, which they said for an extra shop fee they could put my sight base back on instead of the standard Krag base, but on the cutdown barrel the standard notch was not already cut into the barrel as the new one already is, which may possibly cause problems with a proper fit. Where I live there are not many, as in Any, Krag savy Gunsmiths, so I have been reluctant to do the used option. It will be something to ponder, but at least, as you mentioned, I would not be altering a known and documented version.
Either way it's a keeper for me, but I still wish I could find out who that RITZ guy was, Lol...  ;)
Thanks for the Comments.

PS. that Dream Krag Photo is very Cool Indeed...

'KragOmatic': If that used barrel did not have the Krag 'extractor notch', it probably was not a Krag barrel.

BTW - The Criterion barrels use a different rear-sight screw thread than original barrels. Original Krag sight-screws will no longer work.

IMHO - If I were buying a Criterion barrel and having the CMP install it, I would have a replica Krag front-sight base installed. I would also get a 30 inch barrel.
IIRC - The price is the same and resale would be a lot better.

Butlersrangers;
The used Barrel does have the extractor notch, and is definitely a Krag Barrel, with the "P" stamping near threaded end of the Barrel.
The notch I was speaking of in the last post is the standard front sight Notch in the barrel, where the front sight base is mounted/soldiered to. The 03/05 front sight has a band, unlike the original Krag front sight, and my current Barrel was machined down to fit the band accordingly, but as a cut down the factory Front sight notch for the base would not have been there, it would have been lopped off with the front of the barrel prior to attaching the different 03/05 Sight.
By the way, I was unaware the Criteron rear sight mount threads were not the original thread sizes, thanks for the info. ;)

I'm familiar with the 1903 Springfield front-sight 'banded' base, barrel groove, key and cross pin.

IIRC - Some 1903 'banded' bases did not use a key and were held on with just the cross-pin and shallow groove across the top of the barrel (step).

A handy machinist can 'step' a barrel at the muzzle, 'easy-peasy'.

With a close fit, the front-base can be driven on and will stay in place by friction alone.

Some 'J B Weld' coating the inside of the sight 'band' and a shallow notch or countersink on the barrel step would definitely keep the band locked in place.

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In my humble opinion, I would do as Butlersrangers suggested and go with the 30 inch Criterion barrel.  The CMP would correctly install the barrel and it would be indexed properly for the extractor notch.  The reproduction front sight post would be far better than installing a 1903 sight... and would only aid in accuracy and value.  Although the rear sight holes are not the same thread as the originals, replacement screws would work fine and the CMP's installation would insure a good fit of the sight.  A Win/Win!

The 30" Barrel would put it back to the correct set up per the serial number, but then I would need a full rifle stock with a 1900 dated Cart, and all the trimmings to get it back to a somewhat restored, as it began sort of form.
The 22" Barrel will put it back to current altered form, unless I use the original Krag front sight,,, Hmmm, decisions, decisions... Thanks to everyone for the input, I have much to ponder...  :-/

My first Krag was what I thought was an NRA Krag. I was very disappointed when I figured out that it wasn’t and didn’t know what to do, try to make it into a fake Span Am carbine or fake NRA carbine? It hid in my safe for a while while I found an honest Krag School rifle to play Krag with. I eventually got back to pondering my fake’s fate and stumbled onto the Scout Rifle Forum. My Krag Scout build is shown there. Once a firearm is permanently altered [bbl cut] it’s not original anymore and while it can be rebuilt back it’s not original as the serial number and refinishing doesn’t lie. Good luck on your rebuild.
The other rifle is a sporterized 21 inch bbl ‘03 Springfield that I rebuilt back into a military stock.

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Can’t get both photos on my last post so here’s my cut down ‘03.

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Nice looking fun 'rescue rifles', Baltimoreed!

(Gorgeous looking .45, too)!

Baltimoreed;
Nice Krag and 03. I have been leaning toward keeping my rifle as it was modified previously, in essence putting a hold on it's continued evolution modifications where it is, without going backward, and adding to an endless history of further modifications. As is, mine has many unusual features, and I feel going beyond getting it back into functioning order would just be futile. The other option is to leave it as a wall ornament, which I am not very fond of doing. I may go with an original, used cut down Barrel of the same length though, instead of the new Criteron Barrel, and then just have CMP do the work to keep the mod's original flavor. Still pondering it. Thanks for sharing the Photo's, Nice! ;D

In my experience, Krag barrels index well from rifle to rifle.  In other words, swapping barrels is quite easy.
For the cost of the new barrel and CMP doing the work (about $350), you could get a nice sporter barrel and the tools to do the exchange yourself.

I documented this over at the Milsurps forum.  Mods, if this is out of line, please remove the link:   (You need to Login