Has anyone established an US Military Krag Rifle database for early 1892 / 1894 Krags other than SRC?  It would be interesting to see which rifles still exist and the serial numbered parts on these rifles

I was in the process of running a census based on Mallory appendix.  However I left the book at home when I came to Africa.

I was copying the pages to pdf and converting them to OCR and then porting them to he excel.  The hard part was hitting the auctions and places like gunbroker to record serial numbers.  But I am just one man.  Hold on a sec.  Yep, a man.

It was my idea to build on Mr. Mallory's (Praise to his name) work by adding a new column to record the date of any observed serial number in current existance.

As I spent many months reading through the wonderful historic posts here on KCA when I first joined as a member, I eventually came to the realization that there have been a wealth of reported serial numbers of all types of Krag rifles, carbines, sporterized and original military configurations that could be listed and referenced. It just would take a ton of time and patience reading through these posts and listing everything.

Maybe something for someone with more time and patience, and computer skills, than I have!

Would it not be better to unify in a main project where a couple hundred eyes are reporting to a database the continuing existance of Krag rifles"

Some fourms have a special closed sub-forum that open only to members with a second log on.  Serial numbers could be placed in that out of sight location from the general world in there is a privacy concern.

more to follow.

What is the purpose or need to keep it private? I have never been a fan of hiding serial numbers when discussing firearms on the internet. Unless someone gives me a good reason to do so, I'll stick with keeping this kind of "database" open to all. It would definitely engender more input and support form non members who would be willing to add their info.

Just my current opinion.

Excellent idea, though.

We could start a serial number thread here. Lets kick it around a bit and work out some details and guide lines.

Thanks, Ned. I don't think we need anything fancy. Just serial number, rifle or carbine length, sporterized or original military configuration.

I know many want to know about the front sight, the rear sight, the presence of cartouche, bore condition, etc. We can get so demanding with info that it might be a turn off. Don't know. I'd like to see what others think also. Maybe an asterisk next to a serial number if it is documented in SRS.

I would like KCA to have an official listing of serial numbers and dates of manufacture best agreed upon for those serial numbers. As I have stated before, I don't know which reference is best and what most people use. Butlers has educated me before about this topic!

Any way.  It was my thought to keep it simple.  The serial number; Model - 1894, 1895, 1896, Model 1896, Model 1898, Model 1899; the date last seen in existance; and maybe four choices of its condition such as RO-receiver only, BR -barreled receiver, Cutdown, or Military.  Perhaps Military Carbine or Military Rifle when last seen.

It would be great if some of the founders of KCA who have large collections would add their guns to the list.   But if they want to keep who owns what quiet maybe Ned could be the filter.  I don't have a problem adding my numbers to the list as a few of them have already been posted here.

Kinda like this but a lot less noisy.

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Just one guy's opinion.  I am already running my personal Win-Lee census like this.

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Thinking out loud here maybe a separate section for this with a running thread for each type (original configuration 1 rifles and 2 carbines, 3 sporters and unofficial modified, 4 receivers and barreled receivers.
Do not know if it is possible but one could wish for these threads to automatically put the serial numbers in order. I like Culpeper's table, owner could be KCA member, web, advertisement or other.
Maybe software capable of being combined into a single master list?

Maybe we could keep the first couple of columns in the same fashion as Mallory.

sn       model    date seen     other   other    other
                      YYYY MM DD

1200  1894R     2015 03 26
4000  1895R     2016 10 00  (where you do not recall the exact date but know the month)
34000  1896R    2016 06 19
55000  M1896C 2017 01 01

and so on.

Some thing like that.

I'd still suggest less info in a chart. You could have the ending with a line labeled "notes" that could have markings, place seen, damage, etc listed but I think more people would like to just input info like Sn, rifle, carbine, configuration and other info on the "notes" line.

I think rear sight might be good to know with regard to rarer sights and carbines. When I see an 1896 Krag carbine, the first thing I want to check is the rear sight to see if it is an M1896 carbine sight. There are so many out there without the carbine sight. When we examine an M1898 rifle or carbine made in the Aug. 1899 to March 1900 period, we would like to know if it is still wearing an original M98 sight or a M1901 or M1902 sight.

So it would look like Mallory.  Like this?

sn       model    date seen     notes

Where Mallory used the term Usage in the place of the above suggested Notes.

I'm hip to whatever we come up with but we have to be all in on this.  One or two guys can not search all of the commonly known places on the net that may have Krags.  It would be doomed to semi-failure.  Trust me on that.

I suppose if we really want to get nerdish we could include all of the known destroyed krags from Mallory.   :o

I like the thoughts and input here.  Let me cipher on it a bit and ask some more tech savvy than I to see what we might be able to do.

I search through hundreds of Krags through auction sites and would be willing to keep track of some of the data from ones I see but I'm not going to write a book on each one! That's why I'm advocating for less detailed info with a section for "notes" or whatever you want to call it for additional information people may want to add about their personally owned Krags.

The more complicated you make it, the less people like me will want to compile and add info for Krags that we see online or in our LGS. If I was retired and had nothing else to do (like shoot my Krags!), I'd be more willing to create huge amounts of data.

Thanks Ned and Tom for working on this. Getting it started is the hardest job!

I know Joe Farmer compiled such a database some years back on the old Jouster forum. I don't know if he published it or not. I think he was using it to try and discern breakpoints between rifle and carbine production.

Count me in on some help finding known rifles/carbines.

Since I'm a late-comer to this forum, relatively, I don't know what happened between early member(s) and Joe Farmer to cause him to shun this forum. He seems to be one of the most valuable resources available today for many of our areas of interest with Krags. His Krag resource book is fantastic.

I have a friendly relationship with him and would not dream of violating that to try to get him back on this forum as an active, contributing member. That would be up to whoever or whatever caused the rift. I imagine he would decline, unfortunately.

But, why do we have people like Mr. Farmer who has potentially essential resources he has developed or discovered and we have to re-invent them because of some feud?

I'm sure I'll have some generic answer to this but there are probably other newer members and contributors to KCA who have wondered the same thing.

Sorry for bringing it up. Just wanted to say it out loud.

In regard to Whig's question, it may have been my posts and there is nothing, I can envision, that would change things.

I guess it would have to be understood by all that this would be a serial number/receiver census.  We all know Krags range from pristine full military to Dear Lord What Happened To It.

Keeping it simple is the way to go. The line of questioning for me would be this example.

I saw a Krag today.  It had Model 1898 serial number 127000 on the receiver, 24 inch barrel, and a M1903 front sight.

127000  M1898R 2019 07 26  Cut down rifle or left blank.

I saw a Krag today.  It had Model 1898 serial number 198000 on the receiver, 22 inch barrel, carbine stock and a M1901 rear carbine sight.

198000  M1898C 2019 07 25  Proper carbine or left blank.

Of course we can still post in the forum if there is a question on a particular gun and get opinions on what it is as we always do.


Added:

I saw a Krag today.  It had 1894 serial number 71 on the receiver, cutdown stock.

71 1894R 2019 07 26  Cut down stock no 1896 notch  or left blank.

You're right...we've all seen the "Dear Lord What Happened To It?!"

I saw a krag today on xxxxxx forum.  It had 267829 and Model 1898 on the receiver with full military stock.  The post's date in the forum was May 23rd 2008.

267829 M1898R 2008 05 23 xxxxxxx forum

That is the last time it was known to exist.



.

Thank you all for considering my question.  I would really like to see this done.

Curt Quickel
Owner of US Krag Rifle 308

Welcome to the Church of the Mighty Krag, brother.

How cool is it that you have 308!  Way Cool!

Deacon Culpeper
Chaplain of the KCA Irregulars

No current details are noted.  It would have to be understood by all that this is a serial number/receiver census.  We all know Krags range from pristine full military to Dear Lord What Happened To It.

These receivers/serial numbers were last seen...


44      1894R      2014 02 04      
71      1894R      2019 08 01      
112      1894R      2006 04 10      
308      1894R      2019 08 01      
419      1894R      2014 02 04      
3140      1894R      2008 05 18      
25175      1895R      2006 11 20      
33279      1896R      2014 02 04      
34036      1896R      2004 00 00      
34938      1896C      2017 00 00      
47944      M1896R      2014 02 04      
58041      M1896R      2017 00 00      
79396      M1898R      2014 02 04      
102585      M1898R      2014 02 04      
125062      M1898C      2017 00 00      
125699      M1898C      2007 09 10      Mallory
145150      M1898R      1898 00 00      10th Ohio OVI Co. B
145166      M1898R      1898 00 00      10th Ohio OVI Co. I
145168      M1898R      1898 00 00      2nd USV Engr Co. G
145169      M1898R      1898 00 00      2nd USV Engr Co. G
145181      M1898R      1898 00 00      10th Ohio OVI Co. H
145185      M1898R      1898 00 00      10th Ohio OVI Co. H
145200      M1898R      1898 00 00      2nd USV Engr Co. G
145209      M1898R      1899 00 00      1st MD Vol Inf Co. K
145211      M1898R      1898 00 00      10th Ohio Vol Inf. Co. I
145225      M1898R      1899 12 00      26th USV Inf Co. C
179118      M1898R      2017 00 00      
213407      M1898R      2017 00 00      
280872      M1899C      2017 00 00      
289342      M1898R      2014 02 04      
305231      M1898R      2017 00 00      
309763      M1898R      2014 02 04      
323268      M1898C      2005 09 25      
351580      M1899C      2017 00 00      
355713      M1899C      2014 02 04      
363928      M1898R      2014 02 04      
386941      M1898R      2014 02 04      
426030      M1898R      2017 00 00      
440674      M1898R      2017 00 00      
479689      M1898R      2014 02 04      

206711      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
208449      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
211338      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
211369      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
211711      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
212242      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
212422      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
212444      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
212755      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
212816      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
213306      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
213315      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
213615      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
213843      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
214126      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
214852      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
214881      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
371749      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
372870      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
373362      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
374209      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
376398      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
376997      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
378374      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
378644      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
378700      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
378908      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379607      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379608      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228

379670      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379688      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379693      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379722      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379865      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379908      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
379992      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380106      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380119      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380122      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380167      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380427      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380448      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380689      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380694      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380734      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380737      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380895      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
380906      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
381134      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
381257      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
382059      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
382619      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
382828      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
382876      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
383337      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
435128      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
435351      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
435449      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228
436018      M1898R      1911 02 01      62nd Congress 1st session Vol 5 page 1228

Why were these 61 model 1898 rifles listed in the Record of the 62nd Congress?

(After posting the above question, I sort of answered my own question).

The rifle serial numbers were ones that 'knute1' found, in a publication of records from - The Seal Islands of Alaska.

This collection of correspondence and data, spanning 1904 to 1911, was apparently printed and bound for the 62nd Congress to assist treaty legislation related to U.S. Fur Seal Rookeries.

This bound collection of reports inventories 60 Krag rifles on St. Paul (37) and St. George (23) Islands in 1911.

Apparently, the rifles were sent by the Treasury Department. They were in the custody of W.I. Lembkey, Agent Seal Fisheries - Department of Commerce and Labor.

The rifles appear to be for the use of Natives & staff to safe-guard the Fur Seal Rookeries from poachers and ships violating International Seal harvesting agreements.

(In 1904, there were 12 Springfield cal. .45 rifles and 18 Magazine rifles cal. .30, received from the Treasury Department).

In 1905, 900 cartridges .30 cal. were expended in target practice by Natives to get them familiar with the magazine arm.

The Krag numbers in the 1911 list are likely model 1898 rifles. The lowest number is 206711 and the highest is 436488.

IMHO - Just listing numbers is of little value. The context is much more interesting and the most valuable part of the story. "62nd Congress, Volume V" is kind of meaningless and confusing as a description. (Kind of like 'Cumberland Guard', when the real story was the destruction of rifles at a U.S. Depot).

"Knute1" found a record of 60 Krag rifles in a very interesting context. These rifles don't seem to appear in SRS data, but would have, if Mallory had known about the record.
"Knute1" should be credited for finding this obscure 'official record'.

Thanks Knute1. That is an interesting collection of information and insights. The inventory of spare parts and Krag accessories is of special interest .

Whig wrote on Jul 26^th, 2019 at 1:29am:

Since I'm a late-comer to this forum, relatively, I don't know what happened between early member(s) and Joe Farmer to cause him to shun this forum. He seems to be one of the most valuable resources available today for many of our areas of interest with Krags. His Krag resource book is fantastic. I have a friendly relationship with him and would not dream of violating that to try to get him back on this forum as an active, contributing member. That would be up to whoever or whatever caused the rift. I imagine he would decline, unfortunately. But, why do we have people like Mr. Farmer who has potentially essential resources he has developed or discovered and we have to re-invent them because of some feud? I'm sure I'll have some generic answer to this but there are probably other newer members and contributors to KCA who have wondered the same thing. Sorry for bringing it up. Just wanted to say it out loud.

Joe still exists as a resource. Buy his book and sign up for his website. He is there to answer questions.

BR, I had provided a link from my posting about serial numbers. Culpeper has already tabulated the serial numbers from that link. Here is the link. Go to page 1228. :

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butlersrangers wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2019 at 12:08pm:

Why were these 61 model 1898 rifles listed in the Record of the 62nd Congress?

Because I made a mistake in a double entry.  There are sixty in the report.

The title of the volume is   (You need to Login

butlersrangers wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2019 at 12:08pm:

... IMHO - Just listing numbers is of little value. The context is much more interesting and the most valuable part of the story. "62nd Congress, Volume V" is kind of meaningless and confusing as a description. (Kind of like 'Cumberland Guard', when the real story was the destruction of Krags at a U.S. Depot). "Knute1" found a record of 60 Krag rifles with a very interesting context. These rifles don't seem to appear in SRS data, but would have, if Mallory had known about the record. "Knute1" should be credited for finding this obscure 'official record'.

The same observation can be said of Mr. Mallory's (PBOH) work.  All he gives is the sn, model, date, and usage.  How much more interesting would it be if his book was published in the time of the internet in an expanded database?  I would love to see his source books just to read a sampling of those times.  It is like Mr. Farmer (PBOH) alludes to in his book on the workings and mindsets of the those old guys.

I think Knute has received credit by virtue of his post.

There is a certain mindset when anyone checks in Mallory's (PBOH) book like "Oh, I checked in Mallory and...".  Well why not have the same thing with KCA?  Such as:

"I checked in the KCA and their database says my rifle was listed in such and such publication 1933 and they had a link to it!"

KCA would be the premier place for Krags.  (it is now but let's take it world wide.)

What does "PBOH" mean?

Peace Be On Him. 

I think we are all on to something. Kind of exciting. Hope we all follow through and have a great product in the end. Much more research, much more data from others.

I would certainly like KCA to be regarded as The source for research and historic information about Krags on the internet.

I have wanted for quite a while for KCA to adopt and have printed or have a link to a listing that most agree on to be the best reference for manufacture date of any specific Krag serial number. I still don't know whom to trust for determining that fact, understanding, as we have stated many times, that many Krags were produced in a non-linear way at Springfield Armory.

How many different lists are there for serial number dates? I know I'm simple but I would still like KCA to agree which listing would be best for us to depend on!

That's the problem.  You would have to dive in full time in the Springfield Armory's records if they exist regarding the Krag production.  Or you would have to live in the National Archive for twenty years going through the microfilm or the original books and reports.  Or you would have to spend time praying that Archive.org or Google Books or whomever else digitalized the above sources and pray that you get lucky finding production documents that were probably purged in the 1950s.

I think the best we can do is the census and making KCA the premier Krag site. 

By the way.  Where do we get the European Krag production records?  Maybe KCA Detachment 1?

In my opinion, it would be best to focus KCA efforts on U.S. Krag arms.

William Brophy, in "The Krag Rifle", had Scandinavian authors write the chapters on Danish and Norwegian Krags. Serial numbers and production years are well organized.

'Gun Boards' has an active forum on The Krag Rifles of Norway, Denmark, and the U.S. The European contributors are knowledgeable and very helpful.

FWIW - I thought "PBOH" meant Pabst Beer Or Hamm's?

I drank Pabst all the way through college. I could only drink Hamms if I was really thirsty, even though I was living in Wisconsin with all kinds of Hamms signs on taverns (especially up nort.)

If the Krag info was put into a file like Excel you can do a lot of things with it. It can be listed by serial numbers. You can do a sort by rifles and carbines and make another spreadsheet. You can put all kinds of notes in it, but leave it out on spreadsheets to keep a separate/simple list. Lots of variables. The more info the better.  It can be sorted out later and decided what the "public" can view. Maybe an email address for this forum that only a few have access to so that people can provide their info somewhat privately.

Just suggestions.

Mallory used some type of spreadsheet for his list in his book.  I used one also.

Thanks for starting the database

On my 1894 rifle serial number 308, I have SN "101" on the carrier and follower, and "50" on the side plate.  Any other numbered parts out there?

In addition, serial number "309" was posted earlier on this forum

Jeremy T Garner, KCA forum member posted that he own's serial no: 309

I own 13905. Came to me "bobbed" otherwise as issued. Also: Firing pin is not squared

---

You're the one with the rare piece.  Most of the the 1894s have been upgraded with the ones that are tapered.  Even my near perfect 3140 does not have the squared lug.  Fig. 13, Item D

I wish I had my Farmer book.

See page 14 for the common version.

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And I would like to the first in line to say I'll buy it when you decide to sell the rifle.  :D

---

cquickel wrote on Aug 7^th, 2019 at 5:05pm:

Thanks for starting the database On my 1894 rifle serial number 308, I have SN "101" on the carrier and follower, and "50" on the side plate.  Any other numbered parts out there? In addition, serial number "309" was posted earlier on this forum

I think Loading Gate, the left side plate, receiver and if I am not mistaken the Guide Lip were the numbered items.  You'll have to check in Joe Farmer's book. 

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1691      1894R      2002 05 05      
2663      1894R      2002 05 11      
7623      1894R      2002 06 18      
8XX3      1894R      2002 05 11      screw holes in serial number
37208      1896R      2002 06 06      No Model/Model ?
37432      1896R      1898 00 00      Co. B, 1st USV Eng.   No Model/Model ?
37433      1896R      2002 06 06      No Model/Model ?
37445      1896R      1898 00 00      Co. B, 1st USV Eng.   No Model/Model ?
76949      M1898R      1899 00 00      Troop A, 1st Nev. Volunteer Cav.
76970      M1898C      2002 04 14      Carbine?
76988      M1898R      1899 00 00      Troop A, 1st Nev. Volunteer Cav.
170989      M1898R      1899 07 15      26th USV Inf
170990      M1898R      2002 05 07      
174707      M1899C      2002 05 07      
183923      M1898R      2002 05 16      
186180      M1898R      1898 00 00      Co. K, 10th Ohio Vol. Inf.
186285      M1898R      2002 05 07      
200129      M1898R      2002 05 23      
227420      M1899C      2002 04 23      
230747      M1899C      2002 04 14      
291279      M1898R      2002 05 07      
376534      M1898R      2002 05 22      
470599      M1898R      2002 05 07      

One fascinating consequence that could come from creating a database of serial numbers is that some of us who have M1892 rifles that have mis-matched parts could possibly find someone who has the original serialized part for an early rifle and exchange parts. We may be able to re-unite early Krags with original parts. This would be an interesting use of this database!

That, my friend, is a rabbit hole I don't think I would jump down.

Agreed.  Madness thy name is number purity.  I had the same idea when I acquired 112 but I am feeling much better now.  Thank you Buddy.

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"Mallory used some type of spreadsheet for his list in his book." 

I have been trying to learn something about a Krag I just found and I'm running up against a problem with the data Mallory could make available in his Serial Number Appendix. My guess is that he, too, found limitations with the process which may be due to the kind of spreadsheet that was available when he produced his book.  I haven't used a spreadsheet in 25 years, so I'm guessing that Excel is far better than old spreadsheets.  But I think what Mallory needed was a real DataBase that would allow more information per item, as needed, without creating blank spaces and confusing formats.  I don't have an answer at this point, but thought I'd mention the problem I had with Mallory recently.

The space Mallory had to allow, in order for his list to "work", was apparently limited, often enough for only a single event.  Most pieces experience at least 3 events, but only one was often enough for the list Mallory needed.  What I needed to find, was an issue event, a return event with action taken, and if necessary a final exit event.  Simplistically, a beginning, a middle and an end.

In my case, my Krag was unlisted, but in a long list of pieces with the same biographies apparently.  Mallory chose to only mention the middle event which actually only begged for more information. The middle was "071400 TRP F 2ND CAV (C&R AT SA).  There are literally dozens of numbers with the same entry, but no clues as to when issued, result of the C&R at SA - I'm not sure what that involved - and what finally happened to the piece.

There's so much information missing - because of spreadsheet space.  A true DataBase could address this.  Mallory used generic 96C, mine is dated 95.  103 numbers beyond mine is, apparently the first issue to the 1st US Vols  Do I assume that there were no earlier issues to the to them or that mine is one to the 2nd Cav or something else?  Is the answer at SA? … or…?

The way it was explained to me (forty-second hand) and from my own observation of the data lists in his book is that he searched the original records and only found so much information was extant.  I do not know what the sources looked like or why he chose to publish what he did.

Looking at the information with an eye to the medium and media I see the use of some type of spreadsheet software.  The columns are straight and the border lines do not have any gaps like you would see in a notepad ascii charactor set.

I see a simple list of infomation.  Some folks find it easier to use a spreadsheet as a notepad on steroids instead of hacking away at a database structure.  Ick.  Besides I can import my spreadsheet into a database program if I want.

the only thing I changed from Mr. Mallory is the date format.  Don't know how or why he chose DDMMYY but it is absolutely useless when you try to sort through time.  The digital age demands the high significant data first.  Such as how I have it with YYYYMMDD.  Even the Military is changing the format on their format to this way.  Even the post office in Vienna Virginia changed the street numbering in lookup tables to street name and then the number like Main Street 123 and not 123 Main Street.

Try sorting multiple items in a spreadsheet and see what I mean.

071400      TRP F 2ND CAV (C&R AT SA) - 1900 07 14
1900 07 14      Culpeper was born.
1899 02 29      Culpeper stole a krag from the Germans during the invasion of  biloxi
111118      (Destroyed) burned up on re-entry by Dr Goddard.
033124      426th bomb Group Iceland  WW2

Most of the time the infomation that we would love to have is just not there unless someone a hundred and twenty years ago squirreled it away in a time capsule of an old trunk waiting to be discovered.  Oooooo.  Sounds like archeology.


.

I have started a spreadsheet for Observed Serial numbers.  It is a sticky at the top of this section.  Take a look.  It will probably be tweaked a little bit in the next few days, but I think it is a good start.

I know this whole thing started as Serial Numbers of 1892s, but I think we might not want to limit it.  It might be good to list all the serial numbers of any Krags that we see.   

The list is in serial number order, so the 1892s will all be together.

Best,
Tom

How will you address receivers marked only "1895" or "1896"?  Are they going to be considered "Models" or "Variants", like Flayderman, or something else?  I find that Mallory's serial number lists apparently ignore the 1895 date on many carbines and lists them  only as "M96C".  For me, that could be a problem in evaluating individual pieces and maybe even for verifying historical information.

I wish there was a better way to deal with the information.  I think spreadsheets are inherently limiting if trying to find significant deviations from a norm.  A true database may be better as it will, I think, support a search on almost any term or phrase and allow additional information to be added or changed to an item, but the size requirements of the server and software are enormous.  Nevertheless, you've done some work which is a lot more that I have done and the beginnings are hopeful.  Thank you for your efforts, truly!

That’s Great. 

So, I can mess up a w.. dr...  If Tom Butts can modify the entry for S/N 21015 for consistency sake. Under MODEL it should be "1892R". Add "92/96 configuration" under CONDITION. A couple of my fields are offset to the right. Thanks

Let's see now.  I have rifles with 1894, 1895, 1896, Model 1896, and Model 1898 but not 1892.  I need one of those for the collection.

olderthansome wrote on Aug 25^th, 2019 at 4:15pm:

How will you address receivers marked only "1895" or "1896"?  Are they going to be considered "Models" or "Variants", like Flayderman, or something else?  I find that Mallory's serial number lists apparently ignore the 1895 date on many carbines and lists them  only as "M96C".  For me, that could be a problem in evaluating individual pieces and maybe even for verifying historical information. I wish there was a better way to deal with the information.  I think spreadsheets are inherently limiting if trying to find significant deviations from a norm.  A true database may be better as it will, I think, support a search on almost any term or phrase and allow additional information to be added or changed to an item, but the size requirements of the server and software are enormous.  Nevertheless, you've done some work which is a lot more that I have done and the beginnings are hopeful.  Thank you for your efforts, truly!

I don't think entering dates will be a problem. There are only six possibilities: 1894, 1895, 1896, M1896, M1898, M1899. The 1898/99 overstrikes are SO scarce that they could be handled under "Notes".

Yes, a full-blown relational database would be the best ultimate format, but that is a LOT of work. IIRC, beginning with entering data into a carefully-organized spreadsheet should not be a waste of time as I believe it could later be ported into a database if that were later deemed essential.