Hello from a new forum member. I have been an active US military collector for over forty years but mostly what I have collected has been '03 Springfields and 1911's. Needless to say my knowledge about Krags is just enough to be dangerous to my wallet.

Recently I found this Krag carbine at a local yard sale and managed to get it for very, very cheap. So far my research leads me to believe that it is a genuine 1898 carbine.

The good: The serial number is 123905 which is in the known serial number range for '98 carbines. The cartouche is nearly impossible for me to photograph clearly enough, but under the proper light it is a boxed "JSA" (hard to make out) over 1898. Barrel is 22" from the breach face to the end of the muzzle and has the correct taper.

The bad: Somewhere in the past the original carbine rear sight had disappeared. A 1901 carbine rear sight was included with it, but wasn't attached, due no doubt, to the fact that it wouldn't fit with the front band. In addition, the handguard was missing.

I located the correct handguard and I found a 1896 rifle sight in my box of junk (sometimes it pays to be a packrat) and I am using it as a place holder until I can locate the correct sight. I bought the carbine for $400 and sold the 1901 carbine rear sight for $250. I also sold a rather beat up 1899 carbine stock I have been sitting on for a number of years (that packrat thing again) for another $250 and paid a $100 for the handguard, so as it sits I have a net $0 in it.

Pics in the next post.

Here are a few pics:
  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login
  (You need to Login   (You need to Login


For some reason, I can't get a clear picture of the cartouche.

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

High Power, welcome to the KCA where you will get great feedback about your Krag carbine. I'm a 1911 collector and shooter from many years back and have been active in collecting, repairing, reloading for and shooting Krags primarily for the past few years. I have learned most of what I know about Krags from this website and its great members and reading through many of the recommended references about Krags like Poyer , Farmer and Mallory (and a host of others).

It does indeed look like you have wandered into a great find! The 1898 Krag carbine is one of the more elusive and mis-identified of the Krag firearms out there. The serial number range needs to be correct, the barrel needs to be of correct length, the patina needs to roughly match and the rear sight is best to be a carbine marked sight.

You have most of the above and especially, which you didn't mention, you appear to have an original early saddle ring stock that was used by the calvary to carry the carbine. It is difficult to find an early 1898 carbine sight and many of these carbines can correctly have the 1901 carbine sight on them. A lot of them had the 1896 carbine sight affixed to them at the arsenal. These are hard to find and can cost upwards of $600 for a good one!. The sight you have put on yours is certainly OK until another is found. All of the Krag sights, rifle and carbines, have the same spacing for the two screws but, as you have discovered, the hand guards are different.

Your carbine stock looks to have been refinished at some time and the receiver looks like it may have been reblued also. These are not that important considering the rarity of your carbine. Only 5002 of these were made.

How is the bore? Is there a set of cleaning rods in the butt compartment along with an oiler?

I can't believe what you paid for this treasure! Great find. Keep looking for parts and you may find a perfect sight for this one.

Welcome again and more people will chime in about your carbine soon.

No oiler or cleaning rods, but they are fairly easy to find. I am going to a gun show this weekend to see what turns up as far as a carbine rear sight and see what else I might find. My understanding is that the earlier '98 carbines used the '96 style rear sight and since that is the type that will fit the handguard, that is the one I am aiming to find  (pun intended).

The bore is pretty nice. It was a bit dark when I first got it, but after some quality time with Hoppes and a bore brush and many patches, it looks good with sharp rifling and no pits.

I am generally pretty good at spotting refinished guns, and I believe that the finish is original on this thing as the roll marks are crisp with no dished out areas and the bluing wear is consistent with the age of the gun and overall condition. It does look like the stock has been sanded some, but for what I have in it, I am not going to complain a whole bunch.

If anyone knows where I might purchase a rear sight I would be most grateful.

SUPER find, and, due to your good $$$ luck you can pretty much spend what you have to for the 96C sight, and STILL have a bargain!

Do watch out for fakes. 1896 carbine sights have been VERY scarce since the 1970s at least, and some slick operators took advantage of the situation.

I saw your post earlier on the tablet. Your experience reminds me of the people on the Antiques Road Show that pay one dollar for something and find it is worth $10,000.
You are hooked now! Welcome to the wonderful world of Krags.

From time to time I seem to stumble onto a good deal. It almost makes up for the times I overpaid, or maybe just bought too early.

The last one was a high condition 1917 vintage US Property Colt 1911, that I picked up at another yard sale for $800.

Teaser pic ;D

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

'Highpower' -  Welcome to the KCA Forum. You have a very nice looking model 1898 carbine that you are rehabilitating. Your metal finish looks correct to me.
(Your stock even appears in the realm of normal armory refurbishment).

Examine your front-sight blade. Is there a small "C" visible on the Right-Side?
(This could add to the body of evidence that you lucked into a real model 1898 carbine).

You seem knowledgeable and are doing your 'Homework'. Be patient, save the money, and hold-out for a real model 1896 carbine-sight.

IMHO - The model 1898 carbine with the 'short forearm' stock is the most desirable and historic version. The 1898 carbines with the 1899 style stock and other updates are just model 1899 carbines to me.

FWIW - 'Movieman630' (Grandpa's Gun Parts) has the three-section rod and oiler, as a Set, for $50.

An original carbine front-sight hood/protector is a nice accessory to look for at gun shows. A nice one for $100 is a bargain.

---

Thanks for the tips! Sounds like I am about to head over to Grandpa's Gun parts and pick up the cleaning rod and oiler set.

The front sight does have what appears to be a "C" just barely visible above the front sight base.

Can you post a picture of the magazine door open and showing the inside of the magazine. Frequently, there will be a diagonal line on the inside bottom of the magazine that shows it was dipped and reblued. Not always there but this is something I look for and have seen on many reblued receivers. (This finding is thanks to Joe Farmer who first pointed it out to me.)

If the bore is in good shape, the receiver probably is not reblued and the carbine just has been little used and well cared for.  Great find. As Dick pointed out, if you find an M1896 carbine rear sight and paid full price for it, you would still have a great find at a great price!

Congrats and good luck at the gun show!

Quote:

Can you post a picture of the magazine door open and showing the inside of the magazine. Frequently, there will be a diagonal line on the inside bottom of the magazine that shows it was dipped and reblued. Not always there but this is something I look for and have seen on many reblued receivers. (This finding is thanks to Joe Farmer who first pointed it out to me.)

This is about as good as I can get of the area inside of the loading gate. I can't see a diagonal line, only an area of wear where the rims of the cartridges ride at the rear.


  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

I don't see it either. It's up towards the front if at all. Looks really nice and clean. Hard to believe it survived all these years in that condition.

Being a 1911 collector, we have seen many refinishes that almost always involve sanding the metal down to remove blemishes and then refinishing. It is rather easy to spot a refinish, re-bluing job on a 1911 pistol. But, the Krags are a little different. Refinishing and re-bluing are often pursued not because of blemishes, per se, but more so because the bluing often takes on a mottling appearance (like your side plate) and people don't like that. It gets gray and mottled frequently with normal aging from the bluing that was done on the Krag receivers originally. So, when we see a nice smooth bluing finish on a Krag, the metal wasn't necessarily sanded but just cleaned with acid most of the time and then re-blued. So, many of the stampings and edges on a refinished Krag receiver can still be crisp and sharp.

Just one of my observations over the years. Totally different from how the stocks were sanded and refinished, though. Then the features, like many cartouches, are weak or removed.

That's why looking at patina on all parts and comparing is helpful with a Krag. Yours looks real good but I'm still a little suspicious because it is so smooth and even. The dings are blued and usually the dings reveal some raw metal. I'd have to examine it close up but we'll go with original for now!

Now you need some ammo and a range to shoot it at!

It doesn't come out well in the pictures, but the nicks and dings do indeed show bare metal in the bottom of them and the high edges also display bare metal.

Unless, I am sadly mistaken, Highpower's carbine appears to have a model 1896 'Loading-Gate' on it. "Wrong Side Door"

IMHO - The close-up picture makes metal appear 're-blued'.

A picture of two model 1898 receivers.

The top one is in #412K range and, if I have it correctly, shows mottled casehardening colors.

The bottom receiver is in #445K range and may have been 'blued' during refurbishment. (I can't tell for sure).

What do you think 'Whig'?

---

Quote:

Unless, I am sadly mistaken, Highpower's carbine appears to have a model 1896 'Loading-Gate' on it.

This is the kind of information I am looking for. How can you tell the difference? To me it looks the same as the gate on my 1898 (made in 1901) rifle.

Carbine on the top.
  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

  (You need to Login   (You need to Login

radius of the corners are different for one.

You will want to buy Joe Farmer's book.

.

---

Rear corner of the gates is visibly changed (when viewed from top).

Corner of Model 1898 gate (white rectangle) is boxier or "more square".

---

In your lowest picture showing the opened magazines, see that small diagonal line in the bottom front area of the mag? That shows something that is not from the Springfield Armory. It has been "dipped" into a bluing vat and it was not fully immersed, so, there is a small diagonal line showing the un-re-blued (original finish) metal.

That's a good example of what Joe Farmer is talking about.

(Copied below-see in lower picture. Top one is just sloppy.)

---

High Power- We do this for our own fun and entertainment! Really, it's all about learning from each other and passing our wisdom on to others.

No intention to insult or degrade your great carbine! Any of us would be proud to have it in our collection.

We do this all the time. Called "nit picking". Look back at old posts and you'll see.

Welcome to KCA!

Highpower, what a stupendous find...…...and at a yard sale. I've never seen anything like this at a yard sale. Heck, they're hard to find at a gun show in a condition like this. $400 is a steal. Congrats. I am not an expert to tell you what is right or wrong, but there appears to be enough right to make it a very interesting piece. It would be a story in itself to know the what for's and the who's that dictated any replacement of parts that have taken place.

correct is an interesting concept. The vast majority of these ended up in 1899 clothing. Is correct as made originally or as it was when it left service?

It's interesting that your rifle came with a 1901 rear sight. Did the sight match the condition of the rest of the rifle?