The Spanish American War Soldier served at a time when the uniform was undergoing changes in material and color to adapt to tropical climates.

The 'campaign hat' was useful in all climates. It was not overly 'military looking'.
It appears to have become the medium for expressing one's individuality.
(Must have driven some officers and sergeants nuts, but, it probably allowed identifying a soldier at a glance)!

p.s. I would gravitate toward the Bugler's 'style' .... Fedora ... but, front of brim down & tipped to the right at a rakish angle ... if, you please.

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Funny you should mention this subject.

I was looking at some SAW photos on eBay and came across this one...thought about how individuals reconfigured their head gear and made it their own.

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Excellent, Local Boy!

You can see many KCA Members in this photograph. I can recognize them by their Hats.

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LOL!

I think I also see Justin Trudeau in the photo!

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I take a cut a rather rakish figure in my hat.  Got my good side.  Those are bullet holes I received while serving with General Wheeler.  I'm feeling much better.


Too bad their names did not come down through the years with the pictures. 

butlersrangers wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2019 at 6:04pm:

Excellent, Local Boy! You can see many KCA Members in this photograph. I can recognize them by their Hats.

Hmmmmm  It seems my hat resembles Hoss's hat.  Does that mean I should be working out on Bonanza's ranch?

Working Out? ... You look like your waiting for "Hop Sing" to whip up lunch!

Hmmm...maybe there is some kind of family resemblance?

One thing I do know...his bayonet is bigger then mine! :o

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What'cha got there Local Boy ... Mauser bayonet or Rolling-Block?

1908 Brazilian Mauser bayonet.

butlersrangers wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2019 at 8:08pm:

Working Out? ... You look like your waiting for "Hop Sing" to whip up lunch!

Lunch?  Did someone mention lunch???

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Mista Hoss ... I show you how to use knife and folk ... then we work on hat.

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Never much liked the Span Am hat. Bought a cheapy one and then after 2 misses got one that fit from Dirty Billy’s in Gettysburg but it goes with my Krags. I prefer the od DI hat of Pershing’s Punitive Expedition. Looks good with my 1903 [tanker] Springfield and 1911.

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Back in 2011, Ken Hackathorn led our local gun club group in a 1911 anniversary celebration. It was quite an event. One drill he created for us to shoot was the Sgt. Alvin York drill where he re-created the scenario Sgt. York was famous for in shooting down a battery of advancing Germans by himself with, supposedly, just a single Springfield M1903 rifle that, when it shot empty, he used a 1911 pistol. These pictures show that Ken made us wear a battle helmet as well as use a M1903 rifle and a M1911 pistol. Of course, it was timed and the targets were set up to shoot the 5 advancing Germans from back to front with the 1911.

The picture of Hackathorn shows the collection of 1911s we brought and shot that wonderful day. (There were, unexpectedly, 45 1911s on that table.)

We still laugh at how we looked in those hats!

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Hey Whig, watch the hostility toward Germans.  :D

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A 'Campaign Hat' is what you make it!

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Great grandpa's hat around 1900. In the army from 1899 to 1902. Wish I had it.

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You are correct sir...A 'Campaign Hat' is truly what you make it!

This is my Great Grandpa Darth's helmet that he used in battles along time ago, in a galaxy far far away...wish I had it to. :-[

Actually it's a helmet used by Saddam Hussein's personal guard called the Fedayeen.  The Fedayeen (Men of Sacrifice) were commanded by Saddam's son Uday who was a big Star Wars fan.

If Knute's Great Grand Pappy was alive today I bet he would have kicked some Fedayeen butt!

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Whig wrote on Sep 24^th, 2019 at 2:29pm:

supposedly, just a single Springfield M1903 rifle

IIRC, Sgt. Alvin York was armed with a 1917 Enfield for this action. 

This has been highly debated. It has even been reported that he used a picked up Luger to shoot the Germans with instead of a !911. Fascinating history. Almost every account, including his own for the movie about him (played by Gary Cooper), has conflicting details.

Hackathorn went with the M1903 on this day but we discussed the debate and the next time we did the same scenario we actually used an Enfield just to be fair.

The original M1911 is a bear to shoot, especially if you have bigger hands because the beaver tail is too small and the slide will bite your skin bad. Some of the shooters who were not extra careful of this were bleeding after their turn.

The unit history and a couple of places state the 328th was issued M1917s.  Saw a story a couple of years ago some miltary historians did a survey of the York site based on the German after action reports or some such thing and found the exact area York did his shooting.  Even found the eight spent 45 acp cases.

Now where is did I see that article...  I'll have to dig for it.

Interesting. I think that's bunk. I read a while ago that the historians couldn't even find the exact spot where this battle took place. Can you imagine someone saying they found those specific cases he fired? Too wonderful. I would doubt that could happen.

Just adds more color and mystery to this story...

psteinmayer wrote on Sep 25^th, 2019 at 11:13am:

Whig wrote on Sep 24th, 2019 at 2:29pm: supposedly, just a single Springfield M1903 rifle IIRC, Sgt. Alvin York was armed with a 1917 Enfield for this action.

Did you say 1917?! Two 1917s and a fixed 1894 just before the final assault of Moonshiners Gap on the south face of the Bois de Argonne with General Wheeler and Alvin York.  Protect the Likker and Children was our battle cry.

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Found it.

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This is why this is so interesting and controversial. in 2018 An investigator named James Clark reported that:

Attempts to find the exact site of the battle have also muddied the waters around York’s description of events that day, with historians, supporters, and critics unable to pin down the exact site where the battle took place.

There is so much debate, whom should we believe?

I'm not enough of an historian to know how to ferret out fact from fiction with this stuff.

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Being distracted by his Sergeant, new shoes and hat, Private York did not realize a Springfield rifle was pointed at his crotch.

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York was plum happy to be a receiving an America rifle and not one of them thar British guns!

Thanks for posting the "Sgt York Discovery Site" Culpeper...fascinating stuff!

I'm going to have to buy the book "Alvin York" by Col. Douglas V. Mastriano.

Here's part of a review of Mastriano's book that still begs the question...which type of rifle did Sgt York use?:

Quite interesting, but there is one nagging thing he should
have dealt with. He says that all the .30-06 casings show that they were fired by the M1917
Enfield. York's son Andrew has said several times that his dad told him that while he was
originally issued the M1917, in combat he used the Springfield, because he liked the sights
so much better than the Enfield. I guess this is a question that will never be solved, but I
think the author should have at least discussed what Andrew said.

Actually, Sgt York's wife claims that her husband said it was a Krag that he used and not a Springfield 1903 or 1917 Enfield (United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917).  York told his wife that he used his Krag to "Civilize them Germans." ;)

If we are to believe York at his word it could be that he picked up a 1903.  However men during that time were issued a gun and the serial number was recorded just like it was shown in the film.  This was their gun and they had better well guarded it with their paychecks or else.  It is difficult to believe one or a few private men would be allowed to have a rifle not of the same model as the rest of the division.

Picking up a unissued rifle would elicit the wrong type of questions from the Officers and NCOs I am certain.

From the History of the 328th.

Specialty schools were established by the Division in charge of
British and French instructors fresh from the fields of battle. Representatives from
each company were trained in these schools and soon each company had men capable
of instructing in auto rifle, hand grenade, rifle grenade, bayonet, gas defense and
sniping. Clothing and equipment was being received and issued daily and soon the
percentage of straw hats and tennis shoes at dress parades was on the decline. Saw
mills of the camp were rapidly turning out the "new model" Camp Gordon rifle and
soon each man was busily occupied in mastering the intricacies of the manual of
arms with this bed slat variety of fire arm. Work continued with this makeshift
equipment till about the first of February, 1918. Then we were fully equipped with
the United States Model 1917 Rifle and Bayonet.

pg 21 ->

pg 21

Our time here was spent in hard training under supervision of British training
cadres. Although we would all have preferred being in a strictly American sector,
the men took great interest in the instruction and worked hard. A large percentage
of the officers and many non-coms were sent for short courses in various schools
held by the British and very soon returned to their companies as qualified instructors
in the latest methods of using grenades, Lewis guns, Vickers machine guns, etc., and
the latest practices for gas defense.
About June 1st the Regiment moved by marching to a new area, twenty kilos distance, headquarters being located at Elincourt. The training schedule was continued
in earnest and very soon each company had experts with the Lewis gun and everybody was doing good shooting with the British rifle. The men had adjusted themselves to conditions and when night came were glad to go "home" to their respective
hay lofts for a few hours rest.

pg 23

sector here, orders were changed, and we turned in all our British equipment, again
drew American arms in their place, and on June 16th the Regiment entrained for an
American sector.



You will have to search the older posts over on Culvers to find the York discussion on this matter.  I seem to recall some one found they were issued 1917s which stands to reason since the regulars were issued the springfield and the Guards and National units were getting the 1917 Enfields.

Fascinating!  I had no idea of the controversy surrounding the rifle.  Most of the info I have read indicated the 1917.  However, it's possible that if York's 1917 had a problem (and yes, sometimes the 1917 malfunctioned just like any other rifle sometimes do), he might have picked up what ever was available.     Which ever the case, it still doesn't detract from his amazing actions that day... the man and the legend are one in the same!

Culp, thanks for posting that great site!  I might just have to buy the book also...

Found the Culver Shooting Page discussion about Sgt. York of the 328th and the rifle discussion on 10-05-2014, at 03:45 .

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Boy, Farmer got all riled up concerning RC20's comments on the Jouster2 forum!

Evidence heavily leans toward the 1917 doesn't it.

I'm biased since I'm a 1917 Enfield (United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917) fan and collector.

On the website "The Sergeant York Discovery Expedition" it's stated that the .30-06 cases that were found were fired from a 1917 Enfield.  It would be interesting to find out how they determined that?

Guess I need to take my 1903 and 1917 out and do a comparison of the fired cases.

I would think the only way to make the statement of being fired from a 1917 is if the rifle he used was recorded in the February 7, 1919 investigation of the MOH report.

I am semi-certain the working papers would be extant in the military history archives of the Army since the Great War.  Just a guess.

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All this York stuff is more for me but you guys can swing on enjoy the ride too.

From the   (You need to Login

It was generally assumed by both British and American of
ficers that the American battalions were to be attached
immediately to British brigades and share the honors and
burdens of redeeming the lost battlefields of Picardy. This
assumption was suddenly overturned by an order entrain
ing the Division for destination near Toul. The Lee-En
field rifles, to which the troops had just become accustomed,
and the Lewis automatic rifles and Vickers machine guna
were turned back to the British, and the U. S. 1917 Rifle
(Eddystone) was reissued. The train movement began
June 16, 1918, and lasted two full days. The Division
occupied towns and villages north of Toul, and once again
addressed itself to the task of obtaining and mastering
new weapons.

OFFICIAL HISTORY OF 82rd DIVISION       13

The Infantry received Chauchot automatic rifles, and
machine gun companies were equipped with the French
8-mm. Hotchkiss machine guns. At this time all units
of the Division, except the 157th Field Artillery Brigade,
joined the Command. The artillery, however, remained in
training at La Courtine, France.