Thought it would be nice to start a new topic on the M1898 carbines that Val99 started yesterday as a new member with a nice find of an arsenal variation of an authentic M1898 carbine.

Val99's M1898 carbine is the third variation with the long stock, no carbine swivel and M1901 carbine rear sight. His is SN:122309.

It would be nice to get a count of the number of authentic M1898 carbines of all 3 variations from KCA members and guests. We can see how many of the original 5002 we represent here.

Most of the M1898 carbines are found in the SN range of 115XXX to 135XXX but there are a number of authentic carbines found outside of this range. They need to be evaluated a little more carefully. Mallory lists one M1898 carbine in the SRS with SN:154770.

Dick Hosmer showed his M1898 in a correct short stock and carbine swivel. His is SN:131024.

I had posted pictures of my third variation with a long stock, no carbine swivel and an M1901 carbine rear sight. That one has SN:120864.

Below is my second M1898 Krag carbine in the first original production with the short stock, carbine swivel, M1896 carbine rear sight and M1896 short hand guard. I believe this carbine has been together as an original piece from Springfield Armory. This one has SN:120021. This one is listed in the Springfield Research Service manual as being assigned to CO H 5th USV INF which served in the Philippine Insurrection Battle of Manila in 1899. The bore shows light pitting with good rifling.

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More carbine pictures:

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(If this is out of place, I will gladly delete this entry).

FWIW - My model 1898 carbine, (#119744), did not survive intact. It was likely updated by Springfield (to 1899 carbine configuration) and later 'Sportered' for a Hunter.

It came to me, from Pennsylvania, in a nice model 1899 carbine stock, with a "circled P" Proof. (I re-purposed that stock to restore a 'worthy' model 1899 carbine).

I was able to maintain some of the carbine appearance by putting the model 1898 metal into a 'sportered' carbine stock. (From which, I cut off an added pistol grip for my sanity)!

The original carbine barrel has a near mint bore, but, it is blemished by an added 'dovetail' which holds a Marble's open-sight. The original front base holds a Marble's blade.

The "Fatal Flaw", to restoration, was the tapped holes in the receiver. The best I could do was re-use the holes by putting on a Weaver side-mount & vintage scope.

Even with its blemishes, it is a very accurate and fun to shoot Krag.

It is what it is.

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None-the-less, it is another M1898 Krag carbine to add to the list. We're working towards 5002!

Nice job with the stock. Looks great. Can you post a shot of the receiver markings? Thanks.

(I like the "It is what it is." How true of many of the Krags we collect!)

Those holes in the receiver just stare back at you like evil eyes! They are so annoying to see on a nice Krag. The scope mount is well used to cover them up though. Hard to imagine there was a time when it wasn't considered sacrosanct to drill into and ruin a beautiful Krag receiver like this. At least they spared the entire serial number.

I have two M1898 Carbines. One has been upgraded to the M1899 configuration and the other one is still in the M1898 SRC configuration

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Pics of the M1898 SRC

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Thanks for the posting and pics 98src. I see the serial number of the original first variation carbine is SN:134317. Can you give us the serial number of the other one?

I love the nice 1898 cartouche on the short stock of the 134317. Mine only has a remnant cartouche.

So, 2 more to add to the list. Thanks for sharing.

Yes...I think it can be seen in this picture.

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M1898 carbines so far:

122309   Val99
131024   Dick Hosmer
120021   Whig
120864   Whig
119744   Butlersrangers
126417   98src
134317   98src

98 carbines must be a lot scarcer than I thought. Only 7?

Only 5002 made originally. Lots have been lost, destroyed, sporterized beyond recognition or torn apart for pieces. Many fake ones out there advertised all the time as "1898 Krag carbines".

It would be nice to see some more come out of the wood work but this is evidence of why they are so valuable.

So far, we only have 7 listed here!

Alright, I'll open up to the group.  Hi, my name is Culpeper and I am a Kragaholic. 

One of you guys check these numbers in Mr. Mallory's (PBOH) book.

25175
34938
125062
125699

I seem to recall having more money than brains and one is in the book but it is back on the other side of the climate, planet, er, world. >:(

.

I checked all 4 volumes of Springfield Research Service manuals and didn't find any of these serial numbers listed.

What was it listed for? What is the PBOH book? (I'm probably dense today.)

You have to look in Mr. Mallory's (Peace be on Him) 2nd edition.  I think 699 was the carbine listed.

Sorry. I looked all though my Mallory bible and didn't see your serial number at all. Then I checked it out and I only have the first edition. Someone else will need to chime in.

I would think if Mallory had it printed in his book, he would have had it in one of his SRS manuals.

Hope someone else can find what you're looking for.

Mallory (KRS, 2nd edition) lists #125062 - 98C / 1899 / Troop 'A' 1st Nev. Vol. Cav.

125062 is a winner! From SRS data:

125062 98C      99 TRP A 1ST NEV VOL CAV

the cool thing is there are carbines floating around out in the wild waiting to be discovered even though the paper records are long gone but do not have backup of Mr. Mallory and his research. 

Great! So we can add one more to the small list of authentic M1898 carbines owned by KCA members!

We need more. 8/5002= .0016%

M1898 carbines so far:

122309   Val99
131024   Dick Hosmer
120021   Whig
120864   Whig
119744   Butlersrangers
126417   98src
134317   98src
125062   Culpeper

Or to make them more rare...   8/480,000 = 1.66666666666667E-05

Man, is that rare! ;) :D

119744      Butlersrangers
120021      Whig
120864      Whig
122309      Val99
125062      Culpeper
126417      98src
131024      Dick Hosmer
134317      98src

Pessimist!

I have one that I had on this site 7 or 8 months ago..
I will try to upload the pics.
Denny [img][img][/img]

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Thanks leadhead, excellent M1898 carbine:

So we can add yet one more to the small list of authentic M1898 carbines owned by KCA members!

We need more. 9/5002= .0018%

M1898 carbines so far:

122309   Val99
131024   Dick Hosmer
120021   Whig
120864   Whig
119744   Butlersrangers
126417   98src
134317   98src
125062   Culpeper
123682   Leadhead

Ya'll need to take pity on a poor Krag-nut who's a friend to one and all.  Someone with lots of Carbines should send ole Paul and anonymous Christmas gift!  I'm sure he'd be eternally grateful... and sing praises to all!

;D

I'm updating the M1898 carbine list since it looks like a new poster has lucked into an authentic one. If this assessment changes, I'll correct it. Also, I found a posting by a KCA owner from the UK who has a correct M1898 Krag carbine and added him to this prestigious list. If I have missed anyone, please chime in!

So we can add yet one more to the small list of authentic M1898 carbines owned by KCA members!

We need more. 11/5002= .0022%

M1898 carbines so far (Rearranged based on serial numbers):

119744   Butlersrangers
120021   Whig
120864   Whig
122309   Val99
123263   WillRiley
123682   Leadhead
125062   Culpeper
126417   98src
128176   JDR (in the UK)
131024   Dick Hosmer
134317   98src

Pictures of my M1898 SRC are attached. Serial number is  134317. It is a well used example, but I think it is an original, un-molested M1898 Saddle Ring Carbine. The stock has a 1898 cartouche and a M1896 C marked rear sight. I will be listing it in the Classified Section soon.

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I'm updating the M1898 carbine list since it looks like a new poster has just purchased one from a KCA classified.  If I have missed anyone, please chime in!

So we can add yet one more to the small list of authentic M1898 carbines owned by KCA members!

We need more. 12/5002= .0024%. We're just shooting up in those percentiles!

M1898 carbines so far (Rearranged based on serial numbers):

119744   Butlersrangers
120021   Whig
120864   Whig
122309   Val99
123263   WillRiley
123682   Leadhead
125062   Culpeper
126417   98src
128176   JDR (in the UK)
130275   Scott Culbert
131024   Dick Hosmer
134317   98src

     

I found these 1898 carbine in the KCA database:
118894
126370
127548
128309
144048

You all might consider adding you serial numbers to the database.  Or allow me too

Curt

Sorry,

My brain is working faster than my fingers

Curt

If you can be more specific as to where this information is and who owns these M1898 carbines, it would be great to add them to the list! I want to make sure these are truly correct M1898 carbines. I suspect not all of the serial numbers you listed belong to authentic M1898 carbines. But, I'd like to see what you found.

Thanks.

Wonderful thread! I'd like to see two things, both of which are easily accomplishable:

(1) KEEP "our" list in ascending numerical order, rather than flipping back and forth.

(2) Combine "our" list with Mallory's, so as to provide context.

I had such a file on an old computer, which I MAY still be able to access, will try, but cannot say when. Had about 50 entries, IIRC, including Frank's.

If you can find that list, it would be great to combine them.

I also like to keep the list in ascending order so it's easy to see the range of serial numbers of true carbines that we collect.

Lots of fakes and strongly questionable ones that I would like to keep off the list, though.

Agreed - no KNOWN fake should EVER get on the list - and any "suspected" ones should have an asterisk.

"Preference", or at least recognition, should (somehow) be given to those in short stocks - which is, after all the rare part.

As soon as you allow "long stocks with a reasonable number" you are stepping onto a very slippery slope. The number had better REALLY be reasonable - just sayin'.

I like the idea of adding a notation of which stock the carbine wears. Original short stocks are extra rare!