There's a shop with one on consignment locally that I visited yesterday. I went home and was reading about them last night (mainly on this forum) and although I'm not super interested in the rifle, I remember reading that not much information exists on these re-barreled ones. So, I was going to take some photos and post what I found online here so the information was available to anyone who takes interest in such things.

My question is, what should I look for, exactly, that would help? I'll take plenty of photos, of course.

Also, if I do decide to buy it, what are they going for these days? I didn't look closely at the condition yesterday, but it wasn't stellar. What is the general price range?

Thanks

The barrel will be marked Stevens Pope.  There is a serial number range but I do not have access to it now.  The ones for the military were marked 22 Cal on the left side.  The commercial ones were not. 
Check the bore.  I am having mine relined because it was trash. 
The stock should be full length.

Price is based on condition and without pictures it is difficult to say.  I have seen ones go for $2800 to $3400 in very good condition at auction.

Poyer's 2nd edition states that most of the Stevens-Pope Krag receivers that were altered for the .22 caliber cartridge were in the serial number range of 475,000 or above.

This is how Pennsylvania did it back in 1904.

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First time posting images here, wish me luck. If this doesn't work I'll have to try and put them online and go that route.

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The bore... there's rifling but it was so dirty/dusty that I couldn't get a good look. It didn't help that I didn't have a good flashlight on me, and the shop owner wasn't in so I couldn't ask for him to run a snake or swab down it. Based on what I saw, I'd say its in decent shape. Not horrible, not great. 

Any information on the rifle is greatly appreciated, and please offer your 2 cents on condition! I don't know anything about how to judge condition on old rifles.

Thanks in advance.

Definitely a Stevens-Pope rifle with the correct front sight. As you probably won't be shooting it a great deal, bore condition shouldn't be a deal breaker. I have a M1898 Gallery Practice 22 caliber rifle that has a great bore, but I have never shot it. I paid $3500.00 for it about 10 years ago. Is this one in that price range?

98src wrote on Nov 25^th, 2019 at 12:50am:

Definitely a Stevens-Pope rifle with the correct front sight. As you probably won't be shooting it a great deal, bore condition shouldn't be a deal breaker. I have a M1898 Gallery Practice 22 caliber rifle that has a great bore, but I have never shot it. I paid $3500.00 for it about 10 years ago. Is this one in that price range?

Thanks very much for your insight. This one is a bit lower in price than $3500 but I still have no idea how to rate the condition of such an old rifle, and so no idea what I should pay for it. Would you mind telling me what you think? Brutal honesty and a lesson in evaluation would be welcome!

Ken

So far as price is concerned, I paid $3000 for my SA (extractor-plate) .22 - in somewhat nicer shape - about ten years ago. I believe that valuation is about the same for either style. The SA arms tend to run in the 475-477K range, but I'd think an S-P re-barrel could be almost anything. Doesn't look like anyone's fooled with that one, but it would be nice to view the bore with a good wiping. Some of the early .22 ammo could be pretty bad if left uncleaned.

Dick Hosmer wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 3:46pm:

So far as price is concerned, I paid $3000 for my SA (extractor-plate) .22 - in somewhat nicer shape - about ten years ago. I believe that valuation is about the same for either style. The SA arms tend to run in the 475-477K range, but I'd think an S-P re-barrel could be almost anything. Doesn't look like anyone's fooled with that one, but it would be nice to view the bore with a good wiping. Some of the early .22 ammo could be pretty bad if left uncleaned.

Thanks very much for chiming in! I'm not familiar with what SA means. Would you mind filling me in? Also, what do you think a fair price on this one would be if the barrel condition is roughly similar to the exterior of the rifle? Speaking on condition, how would you describe the condition of this one? Cheers!

Dick can answer the rest of your question since he is the most experienced therein but SA means Springfield Armory.

Great thread. I've learned a lot about these rifles from your research into this Krag variant.

Describing the condition is not always easy, and that one would not grade very high on the standardized NRA scale (somewhere between "Good" and "Very Good" I'd think) but, they ARE "rare". Someone has cleaned part of the wood. Steel wool and solvent would improve the metal some, but not enough to make it smooth, and you'd remove a lot of color in the process. I don't think I'd want to pay more than about $2500 for it.

I think the exterior metal will clean up just fine using WD-40 and some of the bronze wool. A lot of it might just be dried grease. the butt plate appears to have the heaviest pitting.The big question of course is the bore. If it is shootable with good visible lands and grooves, I would venture a guess that $2000.00 to $2500.00 would be a good buy. Anything less would be a real good buy.

Dick Hosmer wrote on Nov 27^th, 2019 at 2:23pm:

Describing the condition is not always easy, and that one would not grade very high on the standardized NRA scale (somewhere between "Good" and "Very Good" I'd think) but, they ARE "rare". Someone has cleaned part of the wood. Steel wool and solvent would improve the metal some, but not enough to make it smooth, and you'd remove a lot of color in the process. I don't think I'd want to pay more than about $2500 for it.

Thank you very much.

98src wrote on Nov 27^th, 2019 at 11:01pm:

I think the exterior metal will clean up just fine using WD-40 and some of the bronze wool. A lot of it might just be dried grease. the butt plate appears to have the heaviest pitting.The big question of course is the bore. If it is shootable with good visible lands and grooves, I would venture a guess that $2000.00 to $2500.00 would be a good buy. Anything less would be a real good buy.

Thank you for your input!

I have messed around with both Gallery Practice Rifles (GPR) and with Stevens-Popes (SP) for a few years now.  Here's how I look at them:

The SP was made as a barrel only (and maybe it came with a front sight), And was D&T for the Krag rear sight of any type.  When you buy (big bucks) a complete SP Krag, you are buying a SP barrel and it better be at least shootable.  The rest of the rifle really has no more value than a complete collection of parts.

To me, if you can't get an original SP barrel to shoot (and they are worth a lot of bronze brush & JB work), then you have something that is probably worth a lot less than you just paid. 

I would be very skeptical about lining, simply because the exterior of the barrel is NOT concentric with the bore.  To me, that is a job for a skilled machinist who knows what the problem is BEFORE he puts the barrel on his lathe.   John Taylor is the first guy I would call. 

If a SP Krag that had been relined came around, I don't think I'd chance more than 60 % of the value of a good one.  They just ain't the same.

The GPRs were made about 1908-09.  The two I have handled were not as smooth in operation as a regular Krag.  Maybe they were not heat-treated, since they were .22 rimfires only, not .30-40s.  The first production run were chambered for .22 Extra Long and have groove diameters of about 0.226" and 18" twist rifling.  They will shoot .22 Long Rifles safely, but accuracy is minimal.  IMHO, this bunch are over-priced curios.

The later production GPRs were fitted with barrels that were correct for .22 Long Rifle cartridges.  They shoot pretty well, but a real slick Krag they ain't.  Others think they are worth as much as a good SP Krag.  I don't.

What 'style' or type of rifling was used in the Pope/Stevens .22 cal. 'Krag' barrels?

'Waterman' has it correct in my opinion. Only the Pope barrel is significant.
The barrel was purchased as a separate item and could be put on any U.S. Krag rifle without any permanent alteration.

The reference books (reference to Brophy) tell us that the twist was 1:28.  Ballistically, that twist simply does not work. 

In Pope's Barrels, Ray Smith has a photo & description of an unfired barrel #836, 30" long, chambered for .22 Short and fitted to an 1896 carbine.  That barrel would have a 1:25" twist.  For 3 years, I used a Stevens-Pope 44 1/2 offhand rifle in .22 Short.  It had gain twist and the fastest (at the muzzle) was 1:24".  I have another Pope barrel in .22 Short (dated May, 1910) on a Winchester 52.  It has a 1:25" twist. 

A 28" twist would be pretty marginal for a 29-grain bullet.  And would not stabilize a 40-grain Long Rifle bullet, not even on a 25-yard indoor range.

My guess (never having slugged or measured one) is that a SP .22 cal Krag barrel would have 8 lands & grooves and a 1:16" twist.  That twist was standardized for the .22 Long Rifle cartridge back in the late 1880s.

Much is written about Peters "Stevens-Pope" Armory cartridges.  They were just ordinary .22 Long Rifle cartridges, 40 grain bullets, loaded with a case full of King's Semi-smokeless powder, giving BP velocities. The difference was that the bullet in the Armory load was crimped into the case. 

Back then, ordinary (and even match grade) Long Rifle ammunition was not crimped.  The bullet simply sat in the case.  All the rifles that used Long Rifle target cartridges were single shots, so uncrimped ammo was not a big deal.  Plus there was considerable argument among serious target shooters that crimping destroyed accuracy.

But the National Guard officers (guys like Charles Winder) recognized that uncrimped ammo was a problem with a military training rifle.  If you had to remove an unfired cartridge from the chamber of your SP Krag, the bullet was likely to stay in the chamber and the powder would spill all over the inside of your Krag's action.  So Peters "SP Armory" cartridges were crimped. 

With revolvers & repeaters like the Marlin, all .22s were crimped.