Krag Collectors Association Forum Archive

Krag Collectors Association Forum Archive
Firearms >> U.S. Military Krags >> I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds... http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1579652838 Message started by Lead Snowstorm on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 12:27am

Title: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Lead Snowstorm on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 12:27am

...I told myself, self, you got no business buying a Krag carbine, you don't know enough.

But then myself didn't listen. What have I done, KCA? :o

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Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Knute1 on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 1:05am

Well, I don't know what you paid. And I'm no full fledged expert. But I think you did pretty durn good. The finish may not be original, but it appears you have all the right markings. I'd be happy to own it.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Whig on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 2:43am

Congrats. Looks like you made a nice purchase if the price was not unreasonable. Your M1899 was made Sept 1899 with the stock cartouche matching. This is an early M1899 in the first grouping of M1899 carbines. The stock having some wear and refinish is not significant for everything else being good. The M1901c rear sight had a higher front sight blade than earlier carbines. Usually the front sight blade has the "c" stamped high enough so you can see it. I can't tell on yours because of scratches. Might be there.

The bolt is the correct bolt for this carbine also. Some of the carbines and rifles in this age range had the headless cocking piece. But it's sort of hit or miss on these.

I see a repair in the front of the hand guard. Be careful removing that. Looks unstable and might need cleaned up and re-glued at some point.

Is there an oiler and cleaning rods in the butt stock?

How's the bore? If you have a good bore, that's really a keeper!

But looks great! Welcome to the Krag carbine owner's club!

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Lead Snowstorm on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 2:52am

Knute1 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 1:05am:

Snap, I forgot the rest of the details! Another Gunbroker find, $850 + shipping/fees. (You need to Login

I could see a hairline crack in the handguard just ahead of the receiver, but the photos nicely disguised the bigger crack ahead of the sights... ::) Like my other Krags, the rifling is pretty worn.

I did wonder about the stock finish, but not too hard given that the cartouches were still visible and...darn if it wasn't pretty good looking.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Lead Snowstorm on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 2:55am

Whig wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 2:43am:

Yep, I'm not sure if there's a C on the front sight blade or not, and that's after looking pretty closely...for awhile...with a strong light, lol.

The handguard crack *is* very unstable. I'm going to need a tutorial on getting the rear sight off, so's I can get the handguard off eventually.

Buttstock totally empty, alas. Bore is a bit worn, 3+ on my gauge. Doesn't look terribly pitted at first glance, but veeeery dusty. Haven't had a chance to scrub it out yet.

ETA I did run a couple of patches. Looks promising, but the proof will be in the pudding...

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Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Knute1 on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 3:41am

I believe this carbine is in good hands. Good on ya.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 3:52am

Model 1899 marked Krags were built as carbines, so you know you have a legitimate carbine.

Some of your metal parts appear to have a copper cast to them. This is likely from 'Plumb Brown' and 'Cold Blue' metal touch up. (I thought your front-sight blade was brass at first).

Your wood appears to be Italian walnut that has been stained and refinished. A lot of these stocks were used in 1899, 1900, and 1901.

This is a good Krag to use without guilt about using it.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Culpeper on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 6:39am

I don't know... Looks like an uber dangerous carbine. Maybe you should send it to me so I can enjoy, er, ah, hrrmptf, evaluate it and ensure it is safe for you to shoot.

I agree with the rest of the guys. Ya did real good now git us a range report.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 7:42am

'Lead Snowstorm' - The rear-sight comes off by removing the two mounting screws. (Model 1901 rifle sight shown in photo).

Then remove the barrel-band by sliding it forward, while compressing the band-spring. (Remember the "U" on the band goes on the right-hand side of the Krag).

Remove the stock by removing the two trigger-guard screws.

Now, the hand-guard can be slid down the barrel toward the muzzle. As it moves down the barrel taper, the pressure is relieved on the hand-guard's spring-clips.

Coins (a Quarter and a Nickel or Penny) can be twisted into the loose hand-guard's 'spring clips' to counteract the spring pressure. This will help hold the cracked wood in position for gluing.

krag-1901rifle_010.JPG ( 49 KB | 0 Downloads )

hand-guard_storage_002.jpg ( 102 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by FredC on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 2:25pm

...I told myself, self, you got no business buying a Krag carbine, you don't know enough.
But then myself didn't listen. What have I done, KCA?

If you are an alcoholic and fall off the wagon, get involved in an accident and end up in jail, that is one thing.

Looks like this falling off the wagon was akin to landing 2 foot deep rose petals, did not get hurt, and now you smell like a rose. :-)

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 3:17pm

BTW - The Krag model 1899 carbine front-sight blade, (when removed from its base), is .355 inches tall.

The rifle blade for the 1901 rear-sight is .413 inches tall.

krag_99-blade_027.JPG ( 50 KB | 0 Downloads )

krag-blades1_007.JPG ( 53 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Baltimoreed on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 9:17pm

Curious though while we’re talking carbines, why does my 1899 school rifle have a carbine stamped rear sight on it? Also has the humped handguard. And of course the milled bbl for the bayonet. Was it originally a carbine that was restocked into a school rifle as opposed to a cut down rifle? Do I have a carbine in sheep’s clothing?

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Whig on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 10:40pm

School rifles were usually (not always) M1899 carbines that had a rifle stock cut down slightly to be able to have a front barrel band used that had a bayonet lug and the end of the 22 inch carbine barrel, which was thicker than the muzzle end of a Krag rifle, turned down to hold a bayonet ring.

So, the "school rifle" would often, correctly, have one of many carbine rear sights.

But, many bubba-ed carbines were made to be like school rifles which could have been a rifle cut down which would not necessarily be wearing a carbine rear sight.

What is the serial number of your carbine? Is it a Model 1899? All Model 1899 Krags started life as a carbine.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Baltimoreed on Jan 23^rd, 2020 at 12:03am

My school rifle is an 1899, sn 280506.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Whig on Jan 23^rd, 2020 at 12:54am

I have a school rifle made from a M1896 carbine, SN: 68128 with a M1896c rear sight.

My Philippine Constabulary rifle is made from a M1899 carbine, SN:225798 with the unusual M1902c rear sight.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Lead Snowstorm on Jan 23^rd, 2020 at 4:27am

butlersrangers wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 7:42am:

Ah, excellent. I thought the little lever in front was somehow involved in removing the sight. Need to do some familiarization with the sight.

I also seem to have misplaced my calipers. I’ll hunt them up by the weekend hopefully and measure the front sight blade.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 23^rd, 2020 at 5:59am

The 'lever' locks the upper sight-base to the lower sight-base.

When the lever is swung to the left, the upper base is free to pivot on the front mounting-screw. This allows sight adjustment for windage correction.

When the lever is swung back to the right, it locks the bases together in the 'adjusted position'.

The increments at the rear of the sight-base are for sight adjustment.

krag-1901_003.JPG ( 54 KB | 0 Downloads )

krag-1901C_008.JPG ( 87 KB | 0 Downloads )

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 23^rd, 2020 at 6:32pm

This is off topic in regard to OP's post on his model 1899 carbine, but, FWIW:

The, so called, "school rifles" and "Philippine Constabulary rifles" were made from model 1899 (and updated model 1898) carbines, fitted to modified rifle stocks and front barrel-bands.

IIRC - Some Philippine Constabulary rifles, altered at the Manila Ordnance Depot, could have been made from model 1896 carbines.

The carbine sights were on these arms before alteration and would be correctly sighted for the, still 22 inch, barrels.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Baltimoreed on Jan 24^th, 2020 at 3:02pm

I was under the impression that there were no real Philippine Constabulary rifles in existence as they were thrown overboard into Manila Bay but there are school rifles but even the real school rifles are not particularly well documented. Guess things were so much more casual then, outdated surplus rifles were one step above scrap metal so it wasn’t worth the trouble to record and keep actual serial #s of individual rifles and where they went.

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 24^th, 2020 at 4:30pm

The sale of School Rifles (by year, institution, and number of rifles purchased) is partially known.

IMHO - Because specific sales by serial number are not known, NOW, does not mean documents did not once exist (or haven't been located & reported).

school-2_002.JPG ( 79 KB | 2 Downloads )

Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by Lead Snowstorm on Jan 25^th, 2020 at 1:28am

butlersrangers wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2020 at 3:17pm:

BTW - The Krag model 1899 carbine front-sight blade, (when removed from its base), is .355 inches tall.

The rifle blade for the 1901 rear-sight is .413 inches tall.

Found the calipers. They aren't the best, and I'm not (yet) feeling up to taking out the sight, but...

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Title: Re: I told myself not to get into the carbine weeds...
Post by butlersrangers on Jan 25^th, 2020 at 4:59am

If you look at Reply #10, it shows how the model 1899 carbine blade is marked.