I'm looking at a couple 30" barrels
and would like to know the accyracy of these barrels (Roughly.
I know it's all based on what bullet one uses.
But what was the accuracy when these guns were developed.

Thanks

'MiHeadShot' - Welcome to the KCA Forum!

In my opinion, your question is a bit difficult to answer. With the Krag there were some 'growing pains'. Everything was kind of new and under development during 1892 to 1900.

The Ordnance Department chose a 220 grain round-nosed jacketed bullet.

Suitable bullet-jackets were proving problematic.

Smokeless powders were being developed and the good ones were primarily European, (involving royalties)
There was chemical instability and serious barrel erosion problems. The U.S. did not have a good Domestic Powder for the Krag, until "Whistler & Aspinwall .30", in the early 1900's.

Initially Primers were Mercuric and very corrosive, causing problems with reusing Brass and aggravating bore deterioration. Eventually more benign chlorate primers (also,corrosive) were adopted and remained in U.S. military use into the mid-1950's.

With original U.S. Krag barrels it is not unusual to find .3095" groove diameters. Some barrels are 'tighter' and some bores more excessive.
It is hard to find original 30" Krag barrels with Fine bores.
New commercial barrels (like Criterion) will have .308" groove-diameter and will be mint.
Because they were made for 220 grain RN projectiles, the chamber of original Krag barrels has a long 'Lead'. Many Krag barrels will show a degree of throat erosion.

All this being said and in my opinion:

With current 'jacketed' .308 diameter projectiles (of 150 to 220 grains), appropriate propellants & loads, and reasonable shooting skill, it is realistic to have 2 inch groups at 100 yards with a Krag rifle, even if the bore is less than pristine.

A lot of KCA members post results of under 1.5 inches and some achieve 1 inch (5-shot groups) at 100 yards.

I say, under 2 inches at 100 yards with original sights (and old eyes) is good shooting.

p.s. Our ammo is better than their's was, 'back in the day'.

Thanks butlersrangers.
Looking as to accuracy out to yards.
were these rifles campable for any type of accurate distant shooting.
Thanks

The U.S. Military fired Krag rifles in Matches at 200, 300, 600, 800, and 1,000 yards on military ranges.

Skilled shooters were probably keeping shots under 1.5 'minute of angle'.

They were military 'position' shooters, using prone, sitting, and 'standing' positions. (Not Bench-Rest)

MiHeadShot-

Welcome to KCA. We love Krags and have been playing with them and shooting them for years. Reloading is a fun hobby especially with Krags because it can help you taylor a specific load just for your Krag that can approach, if not get to, 1 MOA. It is important to understand that we have found Krags to be very temperamental and each one may shoot any specific load differently or, to say it backwards, each Krag may need a specific load to maximize its accuracy.

Many of us reload and shoot 220 round nose bullets and some do better with lighter spitzer bullets. I just bought a bunch of spitzers but have not loaded them yet to see what my shooting Krag will do with them.

A few other points are worth mentioning. One is bore condition. The later 1902 and 1903 production M1898 Krag rifles have generally seen less use and some have pristine bores. I have some like these and some of them look like the bore is un-shot. These are Springfield Armory rifles that have not had any changes like a new barrel. So, look for a later produced M1898 rifle that has a good outside appearance and you may get a fantastic bore. Bore condition often can be a way to maximize accuracy.

We have had many debates and discussions about which sight is better for shooting longer distances with the Krags. I prefer the M1901 rear sight that has the windage adjustment. I use it with the ladder raised and can sight through the peep hole in the slide on the ladder. I am getting close to that magical 1 MOA at 100 and 200 yards but am looking for the best load for the 300 yard accuracy still.

Some prefer the M1902 rear sight with the Sgt Peep plate for sighting. This is a personal choice based on experience. You can take opinions but you won't know until you try it out. Changing rear sights is easy, if you have another one, but the hand guard is different for different sights. KCA's home page has a listing of pictures that show these details.

Ran out of room-good luck!

Thanks guy's much appreciated, and the information I was hoping to find.

Just waiting now to learn of the bore conditions of these two barrels.
Thanks

Thought I'd throw my $0.02 in here:

FWIW, I load Hornady 220 gr RN (Interlock design) bullets with 40.0 grains of IMR-4350 and a CCI-250 (magnum) primer.  I do ok with this round at CMP matches... all shot at 200 yards, and I believe the gun actually shoots better than I do.  I've even shot a 97-5X (out of 100) in the Slow-Prone string at Camp Perry.  Now at 200 yards, (in case you've never shot in a CMP match) the X ring is about 3 inches and the ten ring is about 6 inches... so you can imagine the size of a military sanctioned 200 yard target. 

Now Krags, although designed to shoot the 220RN/2000 fps MV, are almost human in their love of ammo.  Some love that 220, while others do better with a 180 gr spitzer, or an even lighter bullet.  I have tried a 155 gr RN... and loaded 165 gr and 180 gr bullets back in my hunting days.  I have a friend who WINs matches, shooting a 294 (out of a possible 300 for all three strings), and I have personally witnessed this!  He shoots like a frickin' machine AND he shoots LEFT HANDED!  He shoots a very light (130 gr, I think) bullet.

My point is this:  Krags can be capable of amazing accuracy... even with older barrels!  They can be down-right tack drivers with a new Criterion barrel and the right ammo!!!  It all boils down to finding what works best in your particular Krag (back to that Human/Food analogy).

BTW, this year, I'm switching to a CCI #34 Mil-Spec primer, which is what I use in most of my other ammo... and this is because I have a plethora of them.  The #34 is a shade cooler than a magnum, but with a thicker cup material.  I'm also going to look into trying a 178 gr ELD-Match bullet with H4895 to see how the accuracy is.  Being a spitzer, I need to see how it will feed, as not all Krags can reliably feed spitzer bullets.

'MiHeadShot' - Are these 30 inch barrels attached to anything?

You have not really said you are looking to shoot a Krag.  :-/

Wasn't there a time when Krags were banned from some contests because they were out shooting the then new 1903 Springfield?

On any kind of production when you have things a little out of tolerance you hate to scrap them, so barrel to barrel could show some variation, because of all the personalities of individual barrels, the one that could have been scrapped might shoot better than the one accepted after new tooling was installed in the line and the process dialed in. You just never know.

6 yrs in the Army, 4 on the rifle team 600 meters left handed too, lot's of practice to get there, but hey free ammo, but then again that's been 38 yrs ago, lol.
Yipsy boy Hey,
I've been watching as much as I can on youtube (Grain of salt like everything)
But at least it gives one some perspective.
Thanks.

@ FredC, yes I plan on using these.
There's an auction for two barrels
I'm keeping an eye on, waiting to hear back from the seller as to how the rifeling is.

No stock, but bolt and trigger reciever all there.
We'll see. :-X

A Krag, like any rifle, requires proper fitting and set-up in its Stock to shoot accurately.

Krag stocks are getting hard to come by and expensive. Replica Stocks require a lot of fitting.

You will likely be further ahead buying a complete Krag rifle or a cut-down 'sporter' for a shooter.

butlersrangers, sound advice for the norm, But I'm anything but that, lol. Went to school (College,back in the 80's and took gunsmithing.
Mainly doing stocks, I have a wood shop where I do stocks, instruement builds and repairs.

If these two barrel bores are good, or can be rebored, than at a good price i have two guns with little cost compared to buying  something in th whole so to speak.
I have stock wood, so maybe to tear down clean up and have someone reblue the metal.
I'm good with that.

I also like many people like to get outside my box, it's what gives one knowledge and created tradesmen.

Cool! Keep us posted on your progress.

IMHO - Studying an original Krag stock will help you in this project.

BTW - There is a market for quality Krag forearm-replicas to stretch cut-down stocks, by splicing under the barrel-band.

butlersrangers: I total agree, even if i can find a damaged one
it would be good.
Both the new stocks will not be built to orignal spec's
more for hunting and shooting.
But knowing the deminsions of the factory stock would be of great help.

Does anyone know the twist ratio in these 30" barrels

Everyone knows that!

Krag rifling twist-rate is one turn in 10 inches. This rate was carried over to later U.S. .30 cal. military arms.

A projectile makes almost three complete rotations on its trip through a 30 inch Krag barrel. (You would have to subtract the length of the chamber & throat).

Thanks

If everyone knew that, no one would ask the Questions,   :o

I just got the email I was looking for on the barrel rifeling condition.
Report being very little rifeling left.

So my question being is can these be rebored.
My impression is that they have miniumal land/grooves.
So there is rifeling there.
Thanks

MiHeadShot... where in ole Gander-Land are you located?  If you're close to this area... it might be prudent for Butlersrangers and I to meet you at the range!  Chuck and I sometimes meet at Island Lake, which is part of the Kensington Metro Park area near Brighton.  As far as I know... they haven't shut down shooting ranges yet in all of this Covid craziness!

psteinmayer: Hey Gander boy,lol I'm in Da Yoop at the moment, hoping to become a troll again soon.

These 2 barrels i'm looking at on an auction is what i need to know about.
I don't mind having them rebored if I can get them ast as good of a price as I think I can.

Both have the reciever triggers and bolts

If you are wanting a real project to work on, I could see the trouble and expense of re-boring.

You could also save your money spent on new barrels and re-boring and everything else and buy a nice Krag ready to shoot!

Good luck, though. Keep us informed.

---

That would be one way, but I might be able to get these 2 units for under $100.00.
So as you say I can get them rebored, or put new barrels on.
Need to find out those costs, but i'm a wood worker and have stock material in my shop.

Where in Da U.P., eh!

BTW - A complete Krag action and barrel for under $100 is a 'no brainer'.

It is amazing how well even worn Krag barrels often shoot.

butlersrangers: I'm in the central part of Da Yoop in Iron County by Crystal falls.

Yep I figure just looking at parts that these two units would be worth trying to get.

sellers Discription says fair land & Grooves.
Don't know the cost of reboring (checking on that yet, but new Criterion barrels are $285. ea. and I can't buy a complete Krag for that.
Should know more in a few days.

Do you or anyone else know of someone who does rifle boring???

My parents were from the Copper Country (Calumet), but, I was born a Troll.

I don't have leads on re-boring. It's an expensive process and ends with a .35 cal. 'Wild Cat' in the 40,000 psi, or below category.

Any 'buggered up' or 'cut-down' military Krag stock would allow testing a complete barreled-action for accuracy.
It's amazing the interchangeability of Springfield Armory stocks, within a model  group.
(The model 1896 and model 1898 stocks are different in the bolt handle recess area).

With the U.S. Krag, always use a barrel-band or barrel anchor-screw, to keep the barrel secure in its channel.

The Krag trigger-guard/action screws are close together.
Uncontrolled barrel whip will split a stock, horizontally, behind and in front of the magazine area.

butlersrangers: Thanks, thats good information and something I'll do before going any further if I can land these two units

I was born, raised and spent all of my life (save for my 13 years in the service of our great US Naval Institution) as a troll.  I've spent exactly 2 weeks in da Yoop - a family trip to Copper Harbor when I was 13!  I'd LOVE to go back though...

As Chuck said, even well worn Krag barrels can achieve amazing accuracy.  Some guys shoot cast out of their shot out "Tack Drivers!"  Also, after slugging the barrel, you might find that shooting oversize - .310 or bigger may garner excellent results!  I'm no expert, but I would consider re-boring an absolute last resort. 

psteinmayer: Thanks for this info. Been a woodworker for some years, but this is a new area, I appreciate everyones help.

How come y'all make shooting left-handed ("...and he shoots left-handed") sound like a bad thing? Th'ain't nothing "wrong" about shooting south-paw. It is what it is.
Jon

Jon, given that I'm a lefty, i'd go up angainst any body, providing i had enough Ammo to get back into shoot form.

Lefty?
I'm "Ambiguous" .... hey, what does Politics have to do with Shooting?

butlersrangers: That Can Is Better "Left" unopened.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Whig, you may have to settle with being ambivalent. It can be an art form.

musketjon wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2020 at 5:55pm:

How come y'all make shooting left-handed ("...and he shoots left-handed") sound like a bad thing? Th'ain't nothing "wrong" about shooting south-paw. It is what it is. Jon

Got absolutely nothing against "South Paws."  My son is also a "Lefty."  You should see him working the action of his Type 99 Arisaka in the Rapid... it's mesmerizing!

OK, the auction came and went, did not start on time and the 2 barrels went for $290, but I couldn't keep track of it. So onward to look for a project.
Thanks everyone.

That's OK. Something better will come along. But, your efforts have given us all a chance to exchange ideas and learn a lot together.

Thanks and keep looking!

Will do, and again thanks, if anyone has something post me please. :D

MiHeadShot,

Since your auction passed you by, it sounds like you have learned a little about what direction you may want to go with your Krag rifle project.

I have 2 Krag rifle barreled receivers with 30 inch barrels that are ready for rebuild. Neither have the receiver drilled or tapped.

If you may be interested, I can give you pictures and descriptions and price (very fair) and see if you would be interested in buying one or both.

I am not using these and would like to find a good home for them.

Let me know.

Whig, I'd be very interested, possibly in both depending on $$$
Thanks so much.

Sounds good. When I get home and get a chance, I'll send you a personal message through this forum and get some details and pictures to you. I hope I have what you can use!

Larry
Ohio

Thanks Larry Whig from Ohio
looking forward to seeing the pic's
Pat from Michigan

Pat- PM sent. Check your messages.

Larry