The evolution of this sporter is sad and some here may think what it eventually has become even adds to that in a way.... It was 2007 and browsing a LGS I came across this cut down Model 1898 - the first Krag I had even seen.  Knew of them and wasn't looking for one but was definitely attracted to it. The legendary buttery smooth action and the clean condition with not a speck of rust on it - in fact, all the metal and wood was still covered with cosmoline - had me going back over to handle it for the fourth time when over my shoulder I heard "You can have it for $50 off the tag." So with that the rifle and a box of Remington ammo followed me home that day.

To say this rifle had been butchered would be an understatement. This Bubba's middle name must have also been Bubba! The forestock had recently been cut off with a grinding wheel WHILE STILL ATTACHED TO THE BARREL!!! There were deep nicks cut into the sides and bottom of the barrel and the end of the now shortened stock still had the grooves around it to prove it.

The barrel had been cut to 24" and a banded sight base was literally hammered onto the end of it. There was no crown to speak of so I wasn't surprised the bullets all keyholed at 50yds but I was just checking the overall function with a few rounds to gauge what I had. 

I didn't want to put much into it including the cost and permanence of drilling and tapping holes in the receiver so attached a Williams receiver sight and front base to it with JB Weld. I decided to cut the barrel an additional 2.5" behind the battered front sight base to 20" because I liked the handling of that length in the woods with various carbines I owned. I filed the muzzle as flat as I could get it and used a RCBS chamfering tool to clean up the crown and it shot surprisingly well with jacketed and cast (311284 and Lee 309-200-R) and even round balls even though the first 8" or so of barrel was pretty much shot out. 

This is what it looked like at that point.

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I loved shooting and hunting with this Krag. It was more than serviceable for what I wanted to use it for. I settled on a woods load of a Rem 180gr .310 RN and 36.0gr H-4895  at 2050fps for the equivalent of a slightly overweight 30-30 load. An accurate plinking load of 3.5gr 700-X and a .308 RB cast of WW alloy was right on at about 30yds or so at the same sight setting and with the cutoff feature made it practical for small game encountered while deer hunting.

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That looks like a nice woods walking carbine. Nicely done.  It is always encouraging to hear that a rough looking bore can still shoot. It gives me hope for mine. Thanks for sharing.

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For the past 12 years I have thought about the possibility of replacing that nicked up barrel and adding permanent sights fore and aft so when my days with it are done I'll have something more presentable to leave my grandson and his future heirs to hopefully enjoy for another 100 years. As retirement approaches the window to do it was narrowing so I bit the bullet and sent it off for installation of a 22" Criterion barrel and an S&S repro front sight base. Haven't decided on the front sight blade yet and have a repro blade if I decide to go that route but these old eyes may need something more visible up front - the posting about a fluorescent front sight presented an interesting possibility. For the rear I obtained an E.L. Rice peep sight to make it Krag Sporter "authentic" at a reasonable cost and for the added simplicity that design offers. FWIW it came with a 1902 rear sight which is almost useless on a sporter in the woods. The screw and nut needed to replace the extractor rivet to attach the Rice sight was missing and a few minutes working with file reducing a screw head diameter to fit up into that recess made a suitable replacement.   

To further keep costs down and retain the old look closer to that of the original receiver finish I intended to cold blue the barrel figuring it would look old again before too long. But a series of events culminated in an "offer" to hot blue the barrel and I reluctantly decided to go with that which in hindsight was a blunder since the receiver ended up being blued by mistake as well. The bluing job was well done just not what I was intending for the receiver. Obviously it doesn't affect performance as a Sporter and guess I have the option to remove it and go with a forced older look of one type or another  but for now it is what it is and unfortunately was what it was...For better or for worse depending on viewer's perspective for now it's a modern looking Krag Sporter. 

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Here's a closeup of the Rice sight and a few more views.

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Nice job, leave the blueing, it looks fine for what it is.

Any Krag spoter with the cartouche intact is great in my book! The main consideration is how it shoots and if you like it. You have resurrected a bad Krag into a nice one. Great job and thanks for sharing!

Enjoy it, shoot it, and your grandchildren will love it!

Take them shooting with it, when they can. (Have one for each grand child).

Commercial blades, like the ones made by Marble's, fit the Krag front-sight base and give a clearer sight-picture for older eyes.

Finally took this rifle with the new Criterion barrel to the range yesterday and the bolt wouldn't close on a round. When I first tried the bolt on receiving the rifle after blueing the bolt closed hard initially on an empty chamber but loosened up after a few tries so figured it was just the blueing in the lug recess increasing tolerances slightly.

I compared this bolt with the the bolt from 407052 I posted in the Military section and extractors and their reference to the bolt ends look identical.  I tried the bolt from this one in 407052 and there was no issue but when I tried the 407052 bolt in this rifle it wouldn't close on the empty chamber.  I put about as much pressure on the bolt as with the initial try with the original bolt which finally worked in but didn't want to force it any more than that with this bolt.

The extractor lines up with the cut and bolt closes on an empty chamber. The relationship of case rim to extractor cut looks to be about the same on both rifles so there appears to be enough space for the extractor to jump  the rim but isn't happening.

Checked an old thread on Criterion barrel headspacing that had a nice close up of a case in the chamber but the barrel was not attached so was of minimal help.

I would hate to have send it back if there is something I'm overlooking so any insight or suggestions to check something else is appreciated. I can take pictures later today when I have more natural light. Anything particular views that might be helpful?

Can you close the bolt on an empty piece of .30-40 brass?

Head spacing may not be the issue as much as circumference tolerances also.

If you cannot close the bolt with no round loaded, that raises lots of issues as to what changes were made in the chamber of this rifle. Was it damaged when worked on? Does it visually look clear in the chamber area? Since a different bolt won't work either, the gunsmith who worked on it must have damaged it somewhere. Does the bolt close a little but won't turn fully closed as if the rear of the new barrel is set back too far?

Close ups of the chamber would help. Hard to figure out without it in hand to manipulate.

The gunsmith certainly should have checked his work after changing barrels. If it won't work, you need to send it back!

The bolt does not close on an empty case. The case rim as well as dummies are contacting the barrel face as did loaded rounds of two different OALs yesterday. With rifle on a stand in bright light I can see the bolt face initially stops about 3/32" (<1/8 but > 1/16) from the case about the same as with 407052 and then dropping the bolt handle about 1/4" as the lug begins to cam the bolt face forward it is contacting the case and stops there.   

The same case inserted  in 407052 is about even with the receiver back edge and with this rifle it is set in about 1/16" from back of receiver edge which is the only difference I can see.

There has been debate on whether Criterion barrels are short chambered or not. On this one the case appears to enter the chamber completely so would that not happen with a short chamber?

Hi mavt,

You have a very nice Krag sporter...sorry your having difficulties with the bolt closing on 30-40 rounds.

I just wanted to mention that from time-to-time individuals will sell wide bladed front sights on eBay.

I have one on my 1898 Krag rifle and it sure makes a world of difference.

Haven't seen any recently but this one looks interesting that's currently listed:

  (You need to Login

Did the bolt close before the bluing with or without a case? The bluing should not alter the head space or metal to metal fits. My first thought is a deposit of bluing salts or polishing compound that has hardened and causing interference. I would use something like a plastic toothpick and pick in the locking lug recess, the extractor cut area and shoulder/rim areas where the case would seat.

If I understand correctly, this is a new criterion barrel?  Is it possible that the barrel has been incorrectly indexed or machined and is turned in a little too far... far enough that the bolt is touching the rear of the barrel before the bolt is in battery?  If the bolt won't close on an empty chamber, it ain't gonna close with an empty case in there either!

If you sent "it off for installation of a 22" Criterion barrel" did you check the chambering when it first came back? As stated the blueing its self would not cause this unless there is residue of some kind in one of the recesses. If nothing is physically stopping the bolt from closing then this could be on the installer.

Try just closing a bare bolt (striker/extractor mechanism removed) in the action.

This will tell, if it is a bolt fit problem. (Very unlikely)

If the bare bolt closes. Try closing the bare bolt on a cartridge. This will check chamber dimension and minimum head-space. (Usually checked by barrel installer with a 'Go Gauge').

If the bare bolt closes on a cartridge, then the problem is likely with the extractor or 'extractor cut'. (Something interfering with the extractor being free to rise and snap over the cartridge rim).

Do your cartridge cases have a bevel on the rim?

(IIRC - Someone recently had a problem with Hornady .30-40 Brass, which was lacking the traditional bevel. The case bevel assists in the extractor 'claw' moving upward).

BTW - There is a slight inclined edge or shelf on the left interior of the Krag action.
The left edge of the extractor-spring rides under this surface to assist keeping downward tension on the extractor 'claw'. Check these surfaces for burrs or debris.

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Thanks for the replies.  To answer Ned's question first because others are probably wondering about this as well ... I did not check it for chambering when first received after the barrel installation. I had implied there were some issues in my initial post and in fact this rifle was sent back twice for issues related to the overall job but not involving the actual installation so I never did get to a point of chambering a case or dummy until this point. I also assumed that checking for function would have been part of the installation procedure and being preoccupied with the other issues I did not check it at that point...obviously now wished I had. 

The cases I have empty, dummies and loaded are Remington so are beveled per specs. Also it may not have been clear before but the bolt does close on an empty chamber, although initially I had to slightly force it and it took a few more cycles until it felt normal. Its was the bolt from the other 1898 that didn't close on this empty chamber and I didn't want to force it.

The bare bolt closes easily on a dummy round with no pressure at all felt against the case or bolt lug. I also tried the full assembled bolt on a new 30-30 case and it chambered and extracted with no issue if any meaning can be derived from that.

I guess at this point it would appear to be an extractor issue but what  puzzles me is the bolt face makes contact with the case when the bolt handle travel stops so doesn't appear there is room for anymore bolt forward movement to allow the extractor to jump the rim.

Due to events up until now I'd like to understand the problem as much as possible before sending it back so appreciate any additional insight.   

It sounds to me like the extractor notch is either not properly aligned (so as to be wide enough) or not properly angled to allow clearance of the 'claw', when it is holding a cartridge by the rim.

If both of your 'bare' Bolts will close on a cartridge, the Notch is the problem.
(Note - The sides of the barrel notch have to line up with the notch machined into the action and not make it narrower).

Clear photos of your barrel breech may allow us to spot something.

Attached photos to see one that works:

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As a few of us have stated, send it back on them. It needs fixed! Not up to you to diagnose specifically. It ain't working! You done paid good moolah for a job and you want to blast away with the Krag.

Good luck! I'm sure the gun smith will work with you and fix it and keep his reputation intact.

Keep us informed.

Is it possible the person who did the blueing disassembled it and perhaps did not reassemble it correctly? I just can't imagine a competent gunsmith installing a new barrel and not checking fit and function.

The same entity that did the rebarrel handled the blueing  but I believe they sent it out to be blued.  Also believe it was blued intact as one unit since the receiver was not supposed to be blued. 

Here are some views from different angles that may show something.

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'mavt' - In one of your posts you mentioned trying a .30-30 cartridge case. Was this a typo?

In looking at your photos, I believe, I see a bit of 'edge' of the barrel's extractor notch on the right.

The tip of your extractor may snag on this, causing difficulty in pushing the bolt fully forward.

Also, that side of the notch may be angled inward at the top. This would impair the extractor claw from lifting upward as the bolt is rotated closed.

Since this is a hunting/sporter, (if I am correct about the problem), an easy fix would be to remove a slight amount of metal from the right-side of the extractor-hook.

I would not do this to a totally original Krag. But, with a shooter/hunter piece, I would do a little file/stone work.

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mavt wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 12:57am:

The bare bolt closes easily on a dummy round with no pressure at all felt against the case or bolt lug. I also tried the full assembled bolt on a new 30-30 case and it chambered and extracted with no issue if any meaning can be derived from that.

When you close the bolt on a case with no extractor on the bolt besides closing easily can you generate a few thousands of front to back motion on the bolt with light pressure. You should be able to feel this but lubricant on the bolt may make the movement hard to discern.
If so a head space issue is completely off the table.
That leaves you with 3 possibilities. Least likely is a serious ding in the extractor that prevents it from entering the extractor slot. The 2 more likely problems are the extractor slot is not deep enough or slightly out of alignment when the barrel was tightened. The one you could do something about is if bluing salts leaked into the slot after bluing and hardened in the slot. Before you send it off, flush this out with spray penetrating oil and pick in there to loosen the granules up, flush again. Then blow it out with compressed air.  I had a bunch of salt come out of the threads on my dad's 1917 Enfield when it was blued.

And a couple more. I want to determine what the problem is if possible before sending it off anywhere.  Thanks for any insight.

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30-30 is correct. Although a smaller head diameter and rim thickness for the heck of it I tried a 30-30 case. The bolt closed and the case extracted.

I also just tried the sporter bolt in the full military rifle and it closed and extracted a 30-40 case.  Rice sight didn't look quite right on it though!

.30-30 trial is interesting but would not have required the same range of movement of the extractor 'claw', as a .30-40 case.

Please read my last post for possible problem and solution.

Yes, I think you are onto something there. When looking into the cut with good light there is clearly a bright spot worn through the blueing covering most of the right sidewall of the cut. Most likely that caused the initial hard bolt closing I felt that got better after a few cycles but is still too tight a fit when trying to chamber a case.

Thanks for the observation.

I'm somewhat amazed and concerned here. You paid good money (I assume) for a very specialized job of affixing a barrel to your receiver in order to actually use it. The job should have been done without problems, checked for proper functioning and sent to you to use. You should not have to spin your wheels and get numerous opinions, albeit good advice at times, to figure out what is going on.

Another point is, if you fool with it and can't fix it properly and then send it back, you may void any warranty to have it fixed by the gun smith.

Save time, worry and trouble and send it back! It needs to be 100% before using it or you may endanger yourself and others!

I would have already had it back to the guy to be fixed by now.

Please be careful and send it back!

Whig,
Appreciate your concern and for most situations it's probably the best advice but I have to report it is now working after very slight stoning of the right side of the extractor as suggested by BR.

There was a somewhat complex story behind the story with this rebarrel job and if with an easy fix or oversight on my part being pointed out I could avoid the hassle and risk of shipping this back and forth it would be worth the effort to explore it and this time it worked out.

Thanks everyone for your comments on this post. KCA is a great resource!

+1 What Whig said!!

mavt wrote on May 4^th, 2020 at 9:27pm:

Yes, I think you are onto something there. When looking into the cut with good light there is clearly a bright spot worn through the blueing covering most of the right sidewall of the cut.

If that rubbed spot is on the barrel and not the receiver it is definitely a warrantee issue. The barrel needs to be tightened slightly(this will move the front sight also), or the extractor cut is not far enough to the right and need so be remachined.

If the wear spot is on the receiver it still may be a warrantee issue. The barrel extractor cut could be out of place for the same reasons as above but on the left side and tries to push the extractor to the right. In this case you might see wear on both sides. Further in on the barrel (left side) and outside on the right side of the barrel.

I bought a barreled receiver from one of the participants in this discussion so I could check things like this. I ran a probe down both sides of the slot and can feel about .002 or .003 mismatch in the one on hand. Sliding the extractor in there without the bolt there is about .005 clearance on the side of the extractor. That is pretty close tolerance. The boys at the armory did good work, but that tolerance makes it hard to duplicate 100+ years later doing only a few barrel jobs at a time. When I did the extractor cut on my sporter, I screwed the barrel in to normal torque then scribed a line on the barrel where the extractor should go and then made the extractor cut about .010 wider than required to allow for tightening error. The armory boys apparently did not have that luxury.

Unless you dropped the bolt and bent or otherwise damaged the extractor, it sounds like a warrantee issue. You might try sliding the loose extractor into the barrel/receiver slot for grins before you send it off. It is fairly easy to do.

The rubbed spot on the inside of the extractor cut is in an area that is not normally blued on a Krag but because this receiver was mistakenly blued (which was the 3rd miscue with this job and ruined the original finish) it offered a visual contrast not normally seen at that location.

It does appear the extractor cut on this barrel is angled ratherthan being parallel to the barrel that caused it to be off slightly and bind up the extractor. This was obvious enough for BR to pick it up from my picture and suggest the simple  solution. It took longer to go to the garage to get the stone than was spent actually stoning. So little was taken off I doubt anyone could tell eyeballing it.  There was no way I was sending this back under warranty or not for an adjustment of a couple thousands which is all it took.

The installer likely over tightened the barrel a couple of degrees or the notch and thread timing were slightly off.

Widening the notch slightly would be an easy fix with a file, if the barrel were off the action.

Very much Mavt's call. Frustrating that it wasn't done correctly and still isn't quite right.

IMHO - If it were mine, it is easily fixed with a little stone work on the right-side of the extractor claw.

I would not want to send it back to the installer and lose the use of a utility Krag for months.

(Oops, 'mavt' fixed it. Well done You! Give us a Range Report, soon).

Took it to the range and shot four loads with two different bullets and powders from a bench at 50yds. The 170gr FP wouldn't feed and wasn't surprised but used those first to get on the paper. No feed issues with 180gr RN. Two groups were round and two strung vertically but I'm sure those were me. I haven't been able to shoot it for over a year and both front and rear sights are new to me.

I attached a piece of black plastic from a Hodgdon powder can with a 1/16" drill bit shaft to replicate the front sight blade on a repro base to determine approximate blade height needed. The range is covered so the front sight often looks more like a mirage which didn't help and target bull could have been a bit larger but it functioned ok. First group was a bit right. The Rice sight has limited windage adjustment and with it all the way to the left I was still 1.5 to 2" from center at 50yds with the last three groups in the same vertical plane so that is an issue that goes beyond basic functioning. 

I took a couple pictures trying to keep the rifle level as possible that show the barrel/sight/receiver alignment is off a bit to the left which we suspected caused the extractor cut to be off. When cleaning it last night the angle and light was right to see the barrel cut is to shifted to the left of the receiver cut.

   

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I did send an email to the service that did this replacement but also saw they are closed until next week so may not respond until then.  This is my first (and last) barrel replacement. What is involved to realign the barrel? Strip down the receiver again and use of a receiver and barrel wrench? Does this affect the blueing? Won't the headspace now be a bit long? The Criterion barrel has an extra ring of material around the chamber opening that is used to fine tune headspace that appears to have already been removed.

As mentioned previously this has has already been returned twice for issues before the fail to chamber problem. The more required to rectify this the more I want to avoid sending it back and look at other options like a front sight base for dovetailed sights aligned correctly to the bore even if it requires cutting and crowning. Financial adjustments have already been made on this job so the only leverage I have at this point is reputation and the need to keep my sanity after a year of this!   

FWIW - It is hard to tell from a photo, but, your front-sight doesn't appear that far off.

You might consider a better quality (no-drill) rear-sight that has more windage adjustment - Redfield 102K or Pacific K-1.

I'll repeat it again at the risk of being annoying. I would send it back with a list of issues and request a new barrel, timed and aligned correctly that may require a new sight added since this one appears to be out of alignment with a poorly affixed barrel. You are shooting a barrel that is not 100% and can be considered dangerous. You should not have to be working on it yourself.

I do gun smithing myself but if I send a piece away for threading or repair or whatever, I expect it to be done correctly so I can trust shooting it with my life! My eyes, hands and life are important to me, as well as my treasured Krags!

If the request is not accepted easily, I would ask for a refund and find a more reputable gun smith.

If this is the case, please let us all know who this is so none of us will have him do any work for us. Reputations and quality of work, good and bad, should be shared!

Just my 2 cents. Do what you think is best. 

I feel like I'm getting to be an old snot like Dick, but at a much younger age. (Meant to be a compliment, Dick! You've taught me a lot!!)

IMHO - As aggravating as the flaws are, they now seem cosmetic and never were catastrophic.

It seems other factors weigh into the OP's decision. It is his call.