I’ve contacted and alerted Lyman as to a potential catastrophic overcharge in their manual for 30-40 Krag and 180gr bullets

In looking through my manual for a fellow member, I found an error where Lyman recommends a starting point of 38gr with a max of 42gr of IMR4895 for 180gr bullets. Hodgdon website lists a max of 35.5gr for a 180gr bullet. I’m not a fan of IMR4895 for the Krag, but wanted to post this information to warn others. I’ve taken screen shots of both the manual and Hodgdon website, but was reluctant to post in case someone saved or printed the image without the warning.

I often find variances in charge weights between different manuals... but usually its not too far apart.  Personally, I consider the Hornady 9th and 10th editions my loading Bibles!  I HAVE discovered errors in load data in Lyman's 49th edition... a couple of which I would consider dangerous.  I also remember hearing about a guy who's Garand went boom with deadly results, and the guy had been using Lyman's 49th.  I'm not saying his failure was due to a manual error, there was also the possibility of some Bullseye finding it's way into the case too.  The point I'm trying to make is it's always a good idea to check several sources when working up loads!

Totally agree with you regarding consulting several sources. I wanted to post this one because I view it as potentially catastrophic and specific for 30-40 Krag reloders. Max to max load is a 7gr difference, that’s substantial. I wouldn’t want to shoot that load or even be next to it if someone else were to shoot it. Everyone who starts reloading started off “new”. I know I reached out to several of my seasoned reloading friends and read a lot before I ever loaded my first round.   But that’s me, not everyone. I could see a younger me potentially following a dangerous recipe from a printed reputable 50th printing and not consulting other sources. Maybe I’m still new enough to reloading myself to have not experienced this extreme before, but my intent is simply to alert reloaders to a potential overcharge.

It's pretty scary when a starting load from one manual is higher than a max load from another. I have always started on the low end and worked up carefully. This usually resulted in finding the most accurate load before reaching the maximum load. This puts a different bend on things. You are right when you recommend  cross referencing before loading. It is a lot easier to do now verses 40 years ago. Thanks for the heads up and I hope a correction is made in the manual. Be safe!
   KC

Thanks for the warning. I have six different manufacturers, it can be confusing, when loading for a new caliber. I loaded some 30-06 rounds to 2700 fps according to one manual, and it was not near their max load. It resulted in flat primers, a partially backed out primer and a split case.

Same data is in Lyman 45th edition.  Must have been no problems since 1970.

So it’s the information from Hodgdon’s own website that caused me concern and seem to indicate a potential overcharge.

  (You need to Login

With that said, they list other 308 rounds that are higher than Lyman for the same powder (IMR 4895) and bullet weight (180gr).

30-06: start 45, max 48
.308: start 40.5, max 44.7

Could be as simple as unfamiliarity with the round and being overly cautious/conservative.

I reached out Lyman and after some screenshots and back and forth, here is their response:

Hello,

I have checked with the techs and here is the information received.

We are listed at a higher charge weight than other published data however we have thoroughly tested these loads in house and have been printing that data for several years with no negative feedback.

Its safe data as long as the firearm is in good working order and not an antique or something along those lines.

Thank you


Customer Service Team
Lyman Products

Not many rifles chambered for .30-40, that are ... "not an antique or something along those lines".

Probably less pressure than the guy shooting factory 303 British rounds in his Krag.
Maybe Parashooter could run quick load on the offending Lyman recommendation. I will be busy doing some planting the next couple of days.
Has anyone seen loading data for use in Ruger #3s or custom #1 single shots. The pressure and charge weights could be similar to 308 Winchesters I would imagine.
Passed on a #3 in 30/40 right after I got married, did not have the $85.00!

Note also that the Hogdon website for IMR4895 and 180g bullet shows a max load of 35.5 but no starting load is listed.

FredC wrote on Mar 31^st, 2020 at 6:13pm:

. . . Maybe Parashooter could run quick load on the offending Lyman recommendation. . .

Doesn't look real bad. Note pressure estimates are CIP piezo (PMAX 47137psi).

Cartridge          : .30-40 Krag
Bullet             : .308, 180, Hornady RN 3075
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.089 inch or 78.46 mm
Barrel Length      : 30.0 inch or 762.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.25% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
%       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-05.0   84    38.00   2450    2399   36939   5329     99.1    1.635
-03.8   85    38.50   2477    2453   38212   5380     99.3    1.612
-02.5   86    39.00   2505    2508   39529   5428     99.5    1.587
-01.3   88    39.50   2532    2562   40890   5473     99.7    1.563  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   89    40.00   2559    2618   42296   5515     99.8    1.540  ! Near Maximum !
+01.3   90    40.50   2586    2673   43751   5554     99.9    1.518  ! Near Maximum !
+02.5   91    41.00   2613    2728   45254   5590    100.0    1.496  ! Near Maximum !
+03.8   92    41.50   2639    2784   46810   5622    100.0    1.474  ! Near Maximum !
+05.0   93    42.00   2666    2840   48418   5652    100.0    1.453  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Thanks for posting this.

I haven't used that manual for 180 gr data, but I have notes from 2018 having loaded 220 gr Hornady 3090's with Lyman's starting load of 35.0, Win primers, bullets seated to just cover the crimp groove.  I noted vertical stringing at 50 yards but no other signs of pressure issues.  I did not chrono those.

I just checked my old stand-by, the Lyman 45th Edition, and found IMR 4895 listed with a range of 38.0gr starting, to a max of 42.0gr. Checking another source with Hornady data for the 180 grain bullet the powder grain range was 38.0 to 42.0 for H4895. There has been discussion elsewhere regarding the difference between H4895 and IMR 4895. They are not the same thing, as I understand it. It could have been a typo when adding the listing to the Lyman book from way back. Nice to compare notes - it makes us safer. Thanks