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Message started by psteinmayer on Apr 7th, 2020 at 11:52pm

Title: Gonna try a new load
Post by psteinmayer on Apr 7th, 2020 at 11:52pm
Well, I was loading some ammo this afternoon and as I was grabbing the 220s, I spotted the remainder of a box of 178 gr A-Max bullets that I had for something else.  So... I grabbed my loading manuals and figured up a load to try.  I loaded 16 rounds, and I may load a bunch more.  If they work out ok, I may just bring them to Camp Perry.  This is what I loaded:

Hornady 178 gr A-Max bullet
44.6 grains of H4831SC
CCI #34 Mil-Spec primer
Winchester (W-W Super) cases.
Estimated MV 2,100-2,150 fps

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by Parashooter on Apr 8th, 2020 at 5:19am
While there's nothing wrong (and plenty right) with reduced velocity loads, when you do them with slow powder you're just blowing a heap of unburnt granules out the muzzle. A faster powder can give good pressure, same velocity, and much less waste. Look at the "Prop.Burnt" column for an idea of QL's predicted efficiency with some other candidates giving the same estimated velocity as your 44.6 grain load of H4831SC -

Cartridge          : .30-40 Krag
Bullet             : .308, 178, Hornady A-MAX 30712
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.089 inch or 78.46 mm
Barrel Length      : 30.0 inch or 762.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Muzzle Velocity: 2278 fps or 694 m/s

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 5744                       61.4     26.3     1.70    2278   100.0    36499    4307   1.702
Alliant Reloder-10x                 70.9     30.6     1.98    2278   100.0    33218    4626   1.766
Alliant Reloder- 7                  65.7     29.1     1.88    2278   100.0    38572    4109   1.725
IMR 4198                            71.5     29.3     1.90    2278   100.0    35373    4277   1.705
IMR 3031                            76.7     32.8     2.12    2278    99.7    29163    5140   1.818
Alliant Reloder-12                  73.2     34.2     2.21    2278    99.7    32569    4922   1.757
Hodgdon H4895                       80.3     35.5     2.30    2278    97.9    30778    5229   1.769
IMR 4895                            78.1     34.6     2.24    2278    96.7    29867    5350   1.772
IMR 4064                            81.8     35.4     2.29    2278    95.2    32072    5271   1.772
IMR 4320                            80.1     36.1     2.34    2278    95.0    30720    5370   1.776
Hodgdon VARGET                      81.0     35.8     2.32    2278    94.8    31831    5337   1.760
IMR 4350                            92.5     40.5     2.63    2278    85.4    31252    5648   1.769
Hodgdon H4831 SC                    96.4     44.6     2.89    2278    81.8    31652    5799   1.755

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by Kerz on Apr 8th, 2020 at 11:09am
QL does produce some very interesting data.  Para's posting may help explain why I saw a significant increase in velocity SD with H4831 (no SC).  My results found 160 FTX and H4895 to be a very good combination for my rifle.  About 1.5 MOA vs 3.5 MOA using 220 gr RN and H4831.  The H4831/220 also had twice the velocity SD spread. 
Just an observation from my limited study.
Vic 

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by Capt. Frank on Apr 8th, 2020 at 2:02pm
I have tried the Hornady ELD match bullets in my 6.5 x 55  Swedish Mauser (140 gr), and my M-1A super match (168 gr), with excellent results. 1 5/8 x 5/8" group at 300 with the Mauser, and a 1/2" group at 100 with the M-1A. Since I had good results with Hornady BTHP 168's in the Krag, I will try the ELD's in it. These were the best groups shot. I have not chronographed these yet.

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by mavt on Apr 8th, 2020 at 3:44pm
I have found H4895 to be useful from 222 Rem to 30-06 and in a couple 35's with less capacity as well.  Have used it in my old Krag sporter barrel with 36.0 gr and 180 gr RN  which the numbers above should be close enough to apply to. Have already loaded this and 43.0gr4350 to try in my new Criterion barrel.

Have also loaded the much posted 40gr 4350 and H4350 220gr loads to test in my original 1898 rifle. Do you have numbers for that load ?

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by psteinmayer on Apr 8th, 2020 at 11:29pm
I considered H4895, since that's my Go-To powder.  However, according to the data in my Hornady 9th, there was a much broader range with the H4831... and I had a couple pounds of the 4831SC leftover from loading all that Long Range ammo for my 1903A3, so I decided to use that.  If the accuracy is what I hope it will be, then I'll look to a different powder that may better suit my needs.  Sometimes, I think I'd do better to ask you before I load, Eric...  LOL Save me from wasting powder and time!  I have 45 rounds loaded, so as soon as I can hit the range, we'll see! 

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by madsenshooter on Apr 9th, 2020 at 12:29am

Kerz wrote on Apr 8th, 2020 at 11:09am:
QL does produce some very interesting data.  Para's posting may help explain why I saw a significant increase in velocity SD with H4831 (no SC).  My results found 160 FTX and H4895 to be a very good combination for my rifle.  About 1.5 MOA vs 3.5 MOA using 220 gr RN and H4831.  The H4831/220 also had twice the velocity SD spread. 
Just an observation from my limited study.
Vic 


In my 150gr experiments, about all the H4831SC I could stuff in the case produced lower velocity than both RL19 and my boosted 860 loads.  It might have caught up with just a tad more, and the increased weight of the 178gr might be helpful for it.  One thing I know Paul, if the pressure is too low, you'll wind up with little yellow kernals of unburnt powder dropping out of the mouth of your case and into the chamber upon extraction.  I don't know exactly where that takes place, IIRC around 40gr with a 200gr cast bullet in 30-06.  I shot a match with cast in the Garand at that level.  Good thing I brought my chamber brush!  Looking at Hodgdon data, even 49gr with a 180 only produces 35,900CUP.

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by psteinmayer on May 31st, 2020 at 12:18am
I shot a couple Vintage Matches today with my Krag and the new Lithgow SMLE (results for the SMLE covered in the Other Firearms topic).  For my Krag, I tried those Hornady 178 Grain A-Max bullets that I loaded up earlier this year (load data is the subject of this thread).   The results were encouraging.  Although my score wasn't my best - 246-1X (Off Hand sucked as usual), there were signs that it may be improved.  Feed in the Rapid was good, and although tight, they worked through the chargers just fine.  I think I'm going to order another hundred of the 178s and this time, using Para's data, load them with H4895 for a more complete burn!

Title: Re: Gonna try a new load
Post by Mike4MSU on May 31st, 2020 at 12:33am
Using H4895 and 175 HPBT is one of my favorite Krag loads. I worked up from Hodgdon’s recommended 35gr, so you could start there if you’re looking for something a little softer.

37gr H4895
Sierra Match King HPBT 175

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