During this whole pandemic I decided to take a trip to my local gun store. There I found a "1898" krag in original full military condition, it even came with the original cleaning kit, I was in love, I always wanted one and jumped at the opportunity to buy it. The store was asking $899 and after an hour of background checks and paperwork (thanks Massachusetts) I returned home with my krag. Once I got home I did some researching and stumbled upon this website. Keen to find out more about my krag i checked the serial number and found it grouped in with alot of 1896 krags.....wierd. so I go back to the gun and upon closer inspection see that the stamped model wasn't 1898 but actually 1896. The serial number is 85723 with the original 1896 rear sites. The gun has not been refinished either. Is $899 a good deal for a model 1896?

If anyone has more info on this serial number I'd gladly appreciate info on it, also how can you tell if your krag has taken part in the Spanish-American war?

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Nick,

Welcome to KCA! We love Krags and love helping others learn about them.

Your Krag serial number 85723 was made around November 1897. The Krags are known to have deep stamped "6"s look like "8"s and "3"s often look like "8"s.

Sounds like you may have gotten a great deal!! If the Krag is indeed in full military condition with the cleaning kit, you may have a treasure that is worth more than you paid.

I love the Model 1896 Krags. There were many more later production Model 1898 Krags built and fewer of the Model 1896s have survived in original condition. Many have been altered in different ways.

Please post pictures of the Krag and tell us more about it so we can drool and help figure out more details on what you've bought.

Welcome!

'Nick787' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. It sounds like you did well!

Due to the deep numerals, U.S. model 1896 Krags are often misidentified as model 1898.

Your Krag, #85723, was built around November to December, 1897, by Bill Mook's calculations and around February, 1898, in Joe Poyer's tables.

Since it was built near the date when the U.S.S. Maine sunk, it is most likely that it saw use during the Spanish War or the Philippine Insurrection.

You serial number does not appear in Springfield Research Service Data (SRS).
Its immediate neighbor, Model 1896 rifle #85722, was given back to the Government by a civilian, on 05/01/1943, during a WW II donation drive, and went to the U.S.N.
(BTW - Only a small percentage of U.S. Krags are documented by serial number in Government records).

Nice clear closeup pictures of your Krag would be enjoyed by many.

For that serial number range, you got a good deal! Love to see pictures. :)

this is a truly beautiful rifle I would love to own. How is the bore and does it have a circled P behind the trigger guard and a cartouche on the left side of the stock?

Is it the light or is it nickled or chromed?

Congrats.

Beautiful Rifle, Thank you for the pictures!! :)

Mark_Daiute wrote on Jun 1^st, 2020 at 6:42pm:

this is a truly beautiful rifle I would love to own. How is the bore and does it have a circled P behind the trigger guard and a cartouche on the left side of the stock? Is it the light or is it nickled or chromed? Congrats.

I'm relatively new with guns (this is my second buy ever) the bore seems good to me though. Is there a way to tell the condition of it without looking straight down the barrel? The rifle was spot on at 100 yards with my best 5 shots getting a 6" grouping with original iron sights and no bench rest. So I have to assume the rifling is somewhat good. There is a circled P under the trigger, what does that mean? The Cartouche is missing from the side of the gun. Perhaps I was wrong about the stock not being refinished  :-/

Also the light makes it seem brighter than it actually is. No chrome or nickel finish that I can tell.

Most U.S. Krag rifles and carbines were rebuilt/refurbished during the course of their service. This work was done at Springfield Armory, U.S. Arsenals and Depots.

During reconditioning work, wood and metal parts were skillfully refinished as needed and reused. Some parts were updated/replaced.
There were also new replacement stocks available.

Since disassembly was necessary to process and refinish parts, a rebuilt Krag would be a new combination of parts.

When a Krag was inspected and refurbished at Springfield  Armory, at an arsenal, or depot, it is believed it was function tested and test fired. A circled "P" was stamped on the stock, behind the trigger-guard. (If a stock was being re-used, it may have multiple circled "P" stamps).
From my understanding: No 'acceptance cartouche' was needed on a replacement stock, since the Krag had already been accepted previously.
(A Krag that received a new replacement stock in the 'field' will not have a 'cartouche' or circle "P" mark).

Krags continued in the hands of many U.S. military units until 1907-1908.

The U.S. Military Academies and National Guard units had Krags until 1914.

Krags were used as training rifles and by U.S. Engineers during WW1.

The U.S. Navy had Krags aboard some ships, maybe going into WW2.

Nick: FWIW - Your Krag may have been reconditioned at some time. The presence of 1896 front and rear sights suggest this happened early, rather than during later rebuilds.

Nice M1896, great price.

Nick787! Meaning no disrespect, and I ask this because of your comment about looking down the bore: do you know the trick for removing the bolt? If someone did not tell or show you how you could spend a long time when it is deceptively simple! If you don't know how just sing out and the you can look down the bore from the breach!

Mark_Daiute wrote on Jun 7^th, 2020 at 10:57pm:

Nick787! Meaning no disrespect, and I ask this because of your comment about looking down the bore: do you know the trick for removing the bolt? If someone did not tell or show you how you could spend a long time when it is deceptively simple! If you don't know how just sing out and the you can look down the bore from the breach!

I bought a krag book and watched a few videos on how to remove the bolt when I bought the rifle.  I was more referring to how one would distinguish a good barrel from a bad one when purchasing. Thanks for the comment

butlersrangers wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2020 at 11:07pm:

Most U.S. Krag rifles and carbines were rebuilt/refurbished during the course of their service. This work was done at Springfield Armory, U.S. Arsenals and Depots. During reconditioning work, wood and metal parts were skillfully refinished as needed and reused. Some parts were updated/replaced. There were also new replacement stocks available. Since disassembly was necessary to process and refinish parts, a rebuilt Krag would be a new combination of parts. When a Krag was inspected and refurbished at Springfield  Armory, at an arsenal, or depot, it is believed it was function tested and test fired. A circled "P" was stamped on the stock, behind the trigger-guard. (If a stock was being re-used, it may have multiple circled "P" stamps). From my understanding: No 'acceptance cartouche' was needed on a replacement stock, since the Krag had already been accepted previously. (A Krag that received a new replacement stock in the 'field' will not have a 'cartouche' or circle "P" mark). Krags continued in the hands of many U.S. military units until 1907-1908. The U.S. Military Academies and National Guard units had Krags until 1914. Krags were used as training rifles and by U.S. Engineers during WW1. The U.S. Navy had Krags aboard some ships, maybe going into WW2. Nick: FWIW - Your Krag may have been reconditioned at some time. The presence of 1896 front and rear sights suggest this happened early, rather than during later rebuilds.

The mystery deepens!! After looking in Bill mooks book and inspecting my rifle. I have found that the magazine cutoff has been reversed to the model 1898 and later versions despite clearly being a model 1896. I was under the impression that in order to reverse the magazine cutoff alot of work needed to be done? Would they go through the trouble of modifying a 1896 to 1898 spec without changing the sights?

Officially, Springfield Armory made their many changes to Krags for either monetary reasons, perceived strategic battlefield advantages or availability of parts. They tried to make good decisions as to what was changed and when but, as many of us have seen in our foray into the world of Krag, almost any combination of parts goes.

But, what was done at Springfield Armory is not always what you are seeing or figuring out. Since leaving the armory, after initial manufacture or rebuild(s), many (most?) Krags have been changed or altered by well meaning gun smiths, fly-by-night gun smiths and Bubba.

So, you can't look at one incorrect part, as with your magazine cutoff, and try to make a logical determination as to why it was done. Maybe that's the only part someone found when the original broke and they threw it in there thinking it was fine.

"Looks good- must be right!"

Nick - There was no modification to the Receiver required for the 1896 magazine cut-off "update".

The "reverse operation" was achieved simply by removing the original style cut-off lever and replacing it with the newly engineered one. The new levers were a 'retro-fit',  made and likely sent-out to units in large numbers. The new cut-off lever could be put on model 1892 and model 1896 Krags, easily. (The difficulty had been in designing such a fix)!

This change could be done by unit 'armorers' without the need to send U.S. Krags back to the Armory, arsenal, or depot.

1890 U.S. infantry tactics & thinking, (and the criteria that lead to the adoption of the Krag-Jorgensen design), stressed using the Magazine Arm as a "single-shot", with the magazine contents held in "reserve".
If a situation called for 'rapid fire', orders were given for the unit to do so. The cut-off would be switched to the 'feed' position to facilitate Rapid Fire.

Officers and Sergeants had to maintain strict 'Fire-Control'. All Krag Cut-Offs had to work the same way. If  soldiers tried to 'single-load' cartridges, with their Krags feeding from the magazine, jamming would occur!

In the later versions, the bottom of the 'cut-off lever' was polished 'bright' (in the 'white'), so it could be seen at a glance if a man had his Krag in the 'rapid-fire mode'.

IMHO - It would be more peculiar if your model 1896 rifle still had the early (obsolete) cut-off lever in place.

My suspicion is that your model 1896 got updated with the later cut-off, possibly in the field, but, escaped extensive changs that happened to many Krags that occurred in the early 1900's and WW1 rebuilding/repairs.

That is all pretty cool! (You can always eventually locate an earlier cut-off and keep it with your Krag, as a 'conversation piece').