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Problems with first cast load (Read 8014 times)
fred
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Problems with first cast load
Jan 6th, 2010 at 2:19am
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Have a Krag that I have fired 180 grain FMJ through using 33 grains of IMR4894 and have had excellent results.  Consistently can put 5 rounds into 2.5" at 100 yards. Smiley My bore measures .309".
Wanted to try cast loads, so i loaded up some Lee 200 grain gas checks that cast to .311" which I sized to .310".  The "nose" or main part of the bullet would not slide into my muzzle, so I figured that this bullet was a good fit since the nose should ride on the lands and the base which was .001" larger than the bore would then fill the bore. 
Used liquid alox as lube, installed gas checks, loaded to the correct length, and then loaded with 33, 34, and 35 grains of 4895.
Could not put 5 rounds onto an 11x17" target at 50yds. from a rest. Shocked  My rounds were all over the place with each load.  I could not be sure, but looked like I occassionaly either put two rounds into almost the same hole or they were keyholing. Undecided
Have cast for handguns for years and had no problems.  This is my first attempt at rifle cast bullets.  Am I using the wrong powder?  Certainly there are better powders for cast, but I shouldn't get results this bad using this powder should I? Totally inappropriate lube?  That is what I used for all my handguns (lower velocity of course, but not really that much higher velocity with the mild Krag load).
I am hoping that one of you experts can tell me what I am doing wrong.  Please help! Cry

Thanks
daveboy
  
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TerryR
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 8:38pm
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Hey Dave, not sure about the powder being used. The guys here helped me out using 16 grs of 2400 powder. Also, my lead bullet has a long nose .301+ and .311 sized. But my bore is bigger. You should be good with the size your shooting. And is the muzzle good? I/m using Lymans bullet lube for my 311334 Lyman bullet. 183gr? about. I can shoot 2.5" @100yds with mine. Hang in there, there's a sweet spot somewhere for your rifle.
Another powder that has worked good is IMR 4350,
31-35grs seems to be really decent for cast bullets.
Also start checking the groups with a dirty bore. I've found starting out clean doesn't do good till the rifle has fired about 5 rds, then the groups start tightning up.
Hope this helps alittle! I love shooting cast in my rilfle.
TerryR
  
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Uriah
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #2 - Jan 9th, 2010 at 1:29am
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That seems like a pretty stiff powder charge for a cast bullet. I use 20 gr of SR4759 with the 195 gr Saeco #301 gas check bullet. My Krag may slug at .309, but the chamber throat is worn and is .315 across in one direction. I seat my gas checks and apply lube using a .314 sizing die. I believe the bullets drop from the mold at about .312

I think I'm using 42 gr of 4895 for a mild load in the M1 Garand, basically just enough to function the rifle. Your 35 gr isn't that far off what I'm using in the 06.

I believe 3031 will load down well. You can't go wrong with a light charge of Unique.

I don't have a lot of cast bullet experience in rifles, but I would start with loads less than 1600 fps.
  
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kragluver
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #3 - Jan 12th, 2010 at 2:55am
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I agree, that is a stiff load for a cast bullet. You can push cast to high velocities, but you have to be careful with bullet hardness if you get upwards of 2000 fps. It sounds like you've sized your bullet correctly. I've had excellent success with 19.0 gr of SR4759 under the Lee 185 gr bullet cast from WW. It gives me about 1700 fps out of my cut-down 24" barrel. Unless you want to spend a lot of time experimenting, keep your cast bullet velocities under 1800 fps. As mentioned above, an excellent all-round load in just about any .30-cal round is 16 gr of 2400. I think the 19-20 gr of 4759 approximates this load. Your best cast bullet powders will be SR4759, 2400 and 5744. If this is your first try at cast bullets, don't try to match jacketed bullet velocity. If you don't already have it, purchase the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook.
  
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kragluver
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #4 - Jan 12th, 2010 at 2:59am
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One other thing - do not load below the min charge weight with a "slow" burning powder (anything slower than say 3031). Use faster powders for low charges. You can blow a gun up with a small charge of slow burning powder (look up secondary explosion effect).
  
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fred
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #5 - Jan 14th, 2010 at 1:07am
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Okay, I will back off on the charge.  I have used 2400 before for handguns, but don't have any right now.  Any recommendations using Unique as I have a can of that.

daveboy
  
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kragluver
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #6 - Jan 19th, 2010 at 2:59am
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Unique can be a good cast bullet powder for velocities in the very low range. I've never used it as I'm more interested in 200-300 yard loads. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and/or the Lyman #48 should have some cast bullet loads for Unique.
  
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Timberlake
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Re: Problems with first cast load
Reply #7 - Jan 20th, 2010 at 4:47pm
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Fred,

I have excellent results using cast bullets in my Krag carbine which has a very good barrel.

What I'm using is a bullet from Buffalo Arms Co, .311 dia, RNGC, 173 grain hard cast.  I'm using 17 grains of 2400.  See it here:  (You need to Login to view media files and links)

One thing I've learned when shooting lead bullets in a barrel tinted with copper wash from jacketed bullets, is clean the copper out first!

Bullets driven hard need to be hard.  At a minimum, you'll need at least 15 Bhn(Lyman # 2) and preferably 22-24(Lino of queched WW)

TL
  
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