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Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed (Read 11284 times)

Kavorka KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 32 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2011	Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Jun 28^th, 2011 at 1:58am	Print Post
	I took my 1894 Krag rifle to our 100 yard range to sight it in. I was using new 150 gr FMJ� .30-40 Krag ammo. I raised the ladder sight and placed the horizontal bar at its lowest possible position. To hit paper I had to aim well below my target at least a foot. Any tips on sighting in at 100 yards? Dave


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Kavorka KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 32 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2011	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #1 - Jun 28^th, 2011 at 2:01am	Print Post
	P.S. The magazine cut off worked great even with pointed end ammo.Loading 5 was no problem. Thanks


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Ned Butts KCA Forum Admin KCA Official Member Offline Krag enthusiast! Posts: 525 Location: western catskills NY Joined: Apr 1^st, 2002 Gender:	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #2 - Jun 28^th, 2011 at 11:15am	Print Post
	Original Krag sights were calibrated for 220 grain bullets at around 2000 fps. Your lighter bullet and higher velocity probably won't zero. Depending on what sight configuration you have you could try a lower front sight blade or reload or aim low!


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #3 - Jun 28^th, 2011 at 2:11pm	Print Post
	Believe that would be a taller sight blade? Since the rifle is shooting high (as they all do) you need to force the barrel to point lower. Also, the cutoff function is not affected by bullet shape - it is feeding that may suffer when using a bullet other than the one for which the guide surfaces were shaped. Some rifles just happen to feed non-original bullets better than others - and there is no predicting which will and which won't.


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cjwils KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 60 Location: Northwest US Joined: Dec 27^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #4 - Jun 28^th, 2011 at 2:37pm	Print Post
	You said you "raised the ladder sight and placed the horizontal bar at its lowest possible position." For 100 yards you should not need to raise the ladder at all. There is a notch you aim through when the ladder is laying down flat.


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Kavorka KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 32 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2011	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #5 - Jun 28^th, 2011 at 10:20pm	Print Post
	I thought the ladder folded down gives you the battle sight which is Iam guessing over 500-700 yards? I did try the sight in that manner and� did hit the paper when aiming very low below the target but still in line vertically with the black center. Dave


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cjwils KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 60 Location: Northwest US Joined: Dec 27^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #6 - Jun 28^th, 2011 at 10:48pm	Print Post
	I am attaching a copy of part of a photo that another member put up recently, with my notes A, B, and C added. When I use notch B at 100 yards with the ladder folder down, I am on the paper at 100 yards with no other adjustments. Different bullet weights and loads have all been on the paper with when using that notch. If you use notch B and are below the paper, try sliding the cross piece A forward (with the ladder down) up the curved ramp C, which will raise notch B and raise the point of impact slightly.


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Ned Butts KCA Forum Admin KCA Official Member Offline Krag enthusiast! Posts: 525 Location: western catskills NY Joined: Apr 1^st, 2002 Gender:	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #7 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 12:19am	Print Post
	Right you are Dick!! I shouldn't try to squeeze one last post in before work I guess!!!!


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #8 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 1:54am	Print Post
	The notch at the top of the leaf is the battle sight when the leaf is down, but the intended range for same is less than 500-700 yds; it's more like 275 yds.


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Kavorka KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 32 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2011	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #9 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 11:42am	Print Post
	I am beginning to understand the sighting; however when do you raise the ladder sight? Is the ladder sight generally the same on other rifles like a 1903 for 100yards ladder down? I wish to thank everyone that has been responding to my questions and providing me with a great education on the Krag. I have received so many confusing answers by the so called experts at my gun club. Thanks Dave


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #10 - Jun 29^th, 2011 at 10:40pm	Print Post
	Kavorka:� In the case of your 1896 model Krag rear sight, the sight leaf would be raised and the slide adjusted for ranges from 700 yards to 1,800 yards.� The numbers on the side of the base are where you placed the slide (with the leaf down) to get the correct angle for ranges up to 600 yards.�


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Kavorka KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 32 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2011	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #11 - Jun 30^th, 2011 at 12:02pm	Print Post
	Hi butlersrangers.I read over in the Mallory book on my sight.From his book it appears that my 1894 Krag S/A rifle has a 1896 rifle sight.Left side of base (cut off side) has 300-600,faint 650 yard mark. Right side has 16 lines indicating every 25 yards as per page 125 of Mallory book.Ladder is marked 700-1800 yards.I think you use the front edge or the horizontal bar as you slide the bar on the base to set your target distance from 300-600yards. The end of the base would be at 650 yards.Therefore the 100 yard range would be ladder down and horizontal bar set all the way back to ladder hinge.Sight notch at B ( see above)previous post from cjwils I think I understand. I will post some pictures soon. Thank you all for your help on my education. Dave� :)


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #12 - Jun 30^th, 2011 at 2:19pm	Print Post
	Kavorka:� Keep in mind that most military rifles have sights intended for the battlefield and not 100yd. target ranges.� I have a 1904 Manual, "Firing Regulations for Small Arms", published for the United States Army and Organized Militia. � The Scoring Forms for Competitions it contains have qualification matches fired at 200, 300, 500, 600, 800, and 1000 yards.� The Bull's-Eye Target was being "returned to" or substituted for� figure targets, which were silhouettes of infantrymen and horsemen.� There was a tendency of soldiers in combat to shoot too high.� U.S. troops were taught to "aim low". � "141.� Short-Range Aiming. -- The trajectories of the rifle and carbine are so flat that the sights have not been arranged for any elevation less than 300 yards;� within that range the gun will therefore shoot high, and should consequently be aimed below the bull's-eye." (page 82 - Firing Regulations for Small Arms - 1904).


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Kavorka KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 32 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2011	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #13 - Jun 30^th, 2011 at 10:20pm	Print Post
	Hi Butlersrangers.Once again, thanks� for the information.I was aiming the Krag like my M1 Garand at the 6 o'clock position with alittle white showing below the sight. I will get a heavier grain bullet and try again but alot lower with the Krag and the ladder folded down at the 100 and 200 yard ranges. Regards Dave


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Sighting in 1894 Rifle at 100 yards Help needed Reply #14 - Jun 30^th, 2011 at 11:09pm	Print Post
	Kavorka:� If you are somewhat handy with tools (file & drill), consider making a taller front sight blade from sheet steel using the profile of your original.� With a proper size punch, it is easy to drive out the front sight pin (left to right - if looking from the breech).� The original blade is then just a friction fit in the base. � The higher new blade can be adjusted (filed) by trial and error to center your shot group. � The original blade can easily be reinstalled.


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