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Lastchip
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What to feed her?
Jan 23rd, 2012 at 3:40am
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I been surfing around the net gathering info on what type of ammo to feed her after a check out with a gunsmith. This is what I've learned from my research on both the net and here on the K C A and I hope some of you skilled reloader/shootist types can tell me a bit more. The original ammo for the US Krag had a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps, at some point a hotter load with a velocity of 2200 fps was tried, but it was dropped because it was damaging bolts.
If 100 years ago, 2200 fps was damaging them, all the modern ammo I see for sell have muzzle velocities greater then 2200 fps. Shouldn't these modern loads be destroying krag bolts?

I also read about Max psi rating for a Krag round should not surpass 40,000 psi, but I can find no data about modern loads psi. If the modern loads are spitting bullets out the muzzle faster then 2000 fps, I'm thinking the psi has got to be hotter too.

Sign; completely confused, but a proud owner of a long lean beautiful Krag
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #1 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 4:28am
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You ignore several salient items -
  • Most current loads employ 180-grain bullets - yielding higher velocity at the same or lower pressure as compared to original 220-grain loads.
  • Smokeless rifle powders have been improved significantly since the 19th century, making it possible to achieve higher velocity at lower pressure, even with 220-grain bullets.
  • US manufacturers generally adhere to SAAMI standards, which call for a maximum average pressure of 40,000 c.u.p. for the .30/40 Krag cartridge. Responsible manufacturers select components to give advertised velocity (or reasonably close to it) at or below the specified pressure - and they perform laboratory testing to ensure standards are met.
Your concerns about US-made factory .30/40 Krag ammunition are unfounded.
  
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Marcus99
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #2 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 4:35am
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No to hijack this thread, but what power, charges and bullets do you guys who reload .30/40 krag use?
  
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FatWhiteMan
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #3 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 1:17pm
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Marcus99 wrote on Jan 23rd, 2012 at 4:35am:
No to hijack this thread, but what power, charges and bullets do you guys who reload .30/40 krag use?


I duplicate the original load. 220Gr RN over 40 grains of 4350
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #4 - Jan 23rd, 2012 at 5:15pm
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I tried a "Ken Water's Pet" load for the Krag of a 220-grain bullet & 41.5 grains 4350 and cracked the bolt lug.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2012 at 7:35am by waterman »  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #5 - Jan 24th, 2012 at 1:05am
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I only shoot paper these days, so I shoot a relatively lightweight bullet to acheive a higher velocity at lower pressures.  My normal load is a Hornady 165 grain boattail spitzer over 38.6 grains of IMR 4064.  I also occasionally use a 180 grain and 38.9 grains of 4064, but my accuracy suffers slightly.  Shooting the 165 grain load, I acheive 2 to 3 inch groups (and have even shot a 1 inch group) at 100+ yards with the 1902 rear sight.  Not bad for my bad eyes and a 113 year old rifle.
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #6 - Jan 24th, 2012 at 3:25am
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I see a couple of same helpful gents here that also offered advice on CSP page  Wink Small world and Thanks for the advice again once again.

So what I've learned from replies is
1. modern powders obtain greater fps at lower psi.
2. Ammo manufactures load 30-40 ammo within specs the US Krag Army issue rifle was designed to accept. 
3. From the link psteinmayer posted else where, the Krag action is a lot tougher and better constructed then most people are lead to believe.

(You need to Login to view media files and links)

4. If reloading, do not try a "Ken Walter's Pet Load" of exceeding the original load the rifle was designed to use or the result can be damage to your rifle and maybe yourself. 


Question; who is/was Ken Walters?
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #7 - Jan 24th, 2012 at 4:27am
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Ken Waters was a noted writer/handloader and wrote monthly articles for 'Handloader Magazine'.  Many of his articles were bound up in a work called "Pet Loads".  I don't know if he is still living and writing.
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #8 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 6:27am
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I have used 40 gr of IMR 4350 with a 220 gr bullet with no problem in my model 1898. It is less than the max listed in my reloading books.
  
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Tom Butts
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #9 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 1:21am
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I use 3 loads:
43.8 grains of IMR 4350 and 180 grain bullets, this is equivalent to factory loads

33 grains of 4350 and 220 grain bullets, for original rifles with 1896 sights

41 grains of 4350 and 220 grain bullets, for original rifles with 1901 or 1902 sights

  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #10 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 3:27am
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Tom, why the significantly different load depending on the year of the sights?
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #11 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 11:36am
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The 1896 sights are zeroed at 300yds, the lighter load for the 96 sight hits point of aim at 100yds for our convenience when hunting with long rifles
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #12 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 5:00pm
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When you use the light load, 33 grains of 4350 with 220 grain bullets, does the powder burn completely?  Or do you have unburned grains in the barrel?  And do or can they get dragged back into the action?

I bought an old bail-top glass jar full of bullets at a gun show.  Turned out they were Cole bullets, made at Frankford Arsenal & named for the designer.  These were cupronickle round-nosed 220-grain bullets with no cannelure.  These were the bullets used when the army increased the velocity of the Krag load and cracked a bunch of bolts.  The bullets were covered with a dried-out grease.  I cleaned them with alcohol & tumbled them.  Now they look like new.

I was going to shoot them, at a reduced velocity, but then remembered all the horror stories about cupronickle jackets leaving metal fouling in the barrel.  Has anyone used these bullets?
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #13 - Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:45pm
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Tom Butts wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 1:21am:
I use 3 loads:
43.8 grains of IMR 4350 and 180 grain bullets, this is equivalent to factory loads

33 grains of 4350 and 220 grain bullets, for original rifles with 1896 sights

41 grains of 4350 and 220 grain bullets, for original rifles with 1901 or 1902 sights



Tom, can you explain why there is a difference depending on the sight?
  
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Re: What to feed her?
Reply #14 - Jan 29th, 2012 at 6:21pm
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The 1896 sights are zeroed at 300yds, the lighter load for the 96 sight hits point of aim at 100yds for our convenience when hunting with long rifles
  
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