Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
 10 Cast Load for My Sporter (Read 7609 times)
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Cast Load for My Sporter
Apr 18th, 2013 at 2:42pm
Print Post  
My Krag sporter has .301/.313 bore/groove diameters.  I had some .312 Lee 90371 GCs and some .311 Loverin GCs on hand.  Both around 180 gr.  I figured I'd give them both a try.

I used a 303 Brit expander for the .312 Lees and the standard 30-40 expander for the .311 Loverins.

Powder was 15 gr 2400.  I had to use the 25 yard range. 

The Loverins made one ragged 5 shot hole.

I set the rear sight for 400 yards to move the next group up a bit and shot the Lees.  The group was a vertical string about 3" tall.  What the heck?
I must add that there were no cars parked downrange to distract me.
It wasn't until I got home I realized the rear sight slider had been moving with each shot.  By the fifth shot it was back to the lowest setting. Grin  I guess you really have to crank the lock on the slider to keep it from moving under recoil.

Anyway, the .312 Lees were difficult to chamber because of chamber neck tightness.  I think next I'll try the Lees sized down to .311".  I'll also try the Loverins loaded using the 303 Brit expander.  I think the Loverins got squeezed a bit while being seated after using the regular 30-40 expander.

All in all I think this rifle will end up taking a few groundhogs this summer.
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #1 - Apr 18th, 2013 at 4:03pm
Print Post  
gunboat57:  Sounds like you got good performance from the .311 Loverin gas check projectiles.  If your rear sight is the 1902 model, later versions had more aggressive serrations on the side of the sight leaf to inhibit shifting.  Also, later binding screw knobs are slotted for the .30-40 cartridge rim or .30-03 rimless cartridge head.  They can be snuggly tightened with a coin.  I hope you didn't "crease your car roof again"!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #2 - Apr 18th, 2013 at 4:37pm
Print Post  
My rear sight is the 1896 model.  I'm thinking about selling the 1896 and buying either an 1898 or 1902 model so I can have windage adjustment via a screw knob.

I have a 1901 model for sale in the classifieds because I don't like how it adjusts for elevation or windage.  I am so hard to please I guess.

I am optimistic that when I do get my elevation locked down tight that the Lee 90371s might do as good as the Loverins.  That would be nice since I don't own the Loverin mold anymore.  It didn't shoot well in my Lee Enfields so why keep it, I thought.  Definitely a lack of foresight and imagination on my part!

P.S.  Car was parked behind me this time!
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #3 - May 5th, 2013 at 12:11am
Print Post  
Finally got back to the range today, this time at 50 yards.  My Krag sporter with 15gr of 2400 pushing cast Loverin bullets GCed and sized to .311" still makes a ragged hole with 3 shots.

I ended up buying a 1902 model rear sight for the sake of having windage adjustment.  POI should match POA at 100 yards with the sight at the 300 yd setting.

I was thinking I'd have to single load my rounds but these Loverin bullet loads feed through the magazine just fine.  I also appreciate that the Krag doesn't throw ejected brass into the weeds but just kinda dribbles the shells out the top where you can catch 'em before they get lost.  That's important to a reloading groundhog hunter such as myself!
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2013 at 4:21pm
Print Post  
Just to make some conversation, I'm going to load up some more cast bullet loads using 13gr of Red Dot powder just to see how it performs.  It's sometimes referred to as "The Load".  It worked very well in my 8X57 Persian Mauser with jacketed bullets.  It should work even better with cast bullets.
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kragluver
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 48
Joined: Dec 6th, 2009
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2013 at 5:45pm
Print Post  
Sounds like you have a good cast load. I shoot almost nothing but cast in my Krag. My go to load is the Lee 185 C312 bullet over 19 gr of SR4759. Velocity is about 1700 fps. Very accurate.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2013 at 6:51pm
Print Post  
Kragluver, I need to tap into your experience!

Eventually I will run out of my Loverin bullets and start using my C312 185 mold that I use for my Lee-Enfields.  Do you size your bullets to .312?  Are you using gas checks?  Do you use an oversized expander and flare your case mouths?

I'm still fairly new at loading cast bullets so I appreciate any help I can get.
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gnoahhh
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 147
Location: Annapolis, MD
Joined: Feb 1st, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #7 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:54pm
Print Post  
I haven't worked with the Lee 185gr. bullet, but have fired tons of 180's out of an old NOE mold (#308180), sized .310", with a .301 bore-riding nose- I'm lucky to have 'normal' bore dimensions.  16-19 grains of SR-4759 (it doesn't seem to matter which) gives sterling accuracy. So much so that i haven't bothered with other powders for some time now.

I shoot a 155gr. plain base bullet (Ideal#311241) and 7gr. Red Dot for a backyard-style plinking load. More fun than should be allowed. (Note: don't substitute a 150gr. jacketed bullet in that load. It'll likely stick in the bore. Lesson learned as a reckless teenager armed with his first Krag 45 years ago.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Notlwonk
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 15
Joined: May 21st, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #8 - May 11th, 2013 at 2:09pm
Print Post  
My Krag has a .301/.310 bore. My first load was the 311467 Loverin cast in lino and sized .309 at the check tapering up to .313. 18 grs of 4759 and Rem LP primers, got a 1.55 C to C group. The Lee 180 grain weighs in at about 168 grs (hard alloy) and .3115 dia., it does just as well.
I've gone to a .311 sizer for both bullets, much easier to size and accuracy is the same
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #9 - May 11th, 2013 at 5:33pm
Print Post  
Thanks for all the helpful advice.  Sounds like I've got the bullet mold I need and my .311 sizer should work well.  But I've never used SR4759.  It comes up a lot in discussions about cast bullet shooting.  I guess I will have to invest in some.  Is it very position sensitive?  The Red Dot and 2400 I've used so far don't seem to care about position in the cartridge case.
I don't plan to do much full power reloading for any of my milsurps.  Just low power cast bullet varmint loads.
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gnoahhh
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 147
Location: Annapolis, MD
Joined: Feb 1st, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #10 - May 13th, 2013 at 7:13pm
Print Post  
4759 doesn't seem to be position sensitive. The times I tried fillers to keep the charges uniformly positioned had no effect on accuracy- but I only experimented with .30/30's and .30/40's. Perhaps it behaves differently in larger capacity cases?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunboat57
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 220
Location: NW Pa
Joined: Feb 9th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #11 - May 14th, 2013 at 12:21am
Print Post  
Today I found out I've got three more good reasons for shooting low-powered loads: a tear in my left retina and two small holes in my right retina.  Already had the left eye laser-zapped good as new.  I'll have the right side done next week.  I'll be avoiding shoulder-thumping loads for a while!
  

Tom P.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
reincarnated
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 562
Joined: Mar 11th, 2012
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #12 - May 14th, 2013 at 2:38pm
Print Post  
Gnoahhh's reference to Lyman 311241 bullets got me thinking that you gents are not plowing new ground. You might even view your cast bullet loading as bringing back an old tradition.

Back in the days when Krags & New Springfields were used by the National Guard, some units reloaded their own empty cases.  The standard bullet used was 311241.  The standard load was 10.5 grains of SR-80.  This combination worked so well that it was loaded by Frankford Arsenal as the M-1919 Gallery Practice Load and as the M-1 Guard Load.  The load gave about 1150 fps & was even used on indoor ranges.  SR-4759 is the latter day replacement for SR-80.

At one time it was common to find WW1-era cases (for both Krags & 1903s) loaded with factory-made lead bullets. I think the National Guard reloading continued throughout the Depression.

Lyman (or maybe Ideal) made gang moulds for this bullet. I used to have one that cast 9 bullets at a time.  Dreadfully heavy & difficult to use, consumed lead in huge quantities and produced very poor bullets. Each of the 9 cavities produced a bullet of slightly different dimensions.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RPRNY
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 41
Location: Westchester Co NY
Joined: Dec 20th, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Cast Load for My Sporter
Reply #13 - May 14th, 2013 at 6:32pm
Print Post  
reincarnated wrote on May 14th, 2013 at 2:38pm:
Gnoahhh's reference to Lyman 311241 bullets got me thinking that you gents are not plowing new ground. You might even view your cast bullet loading as bringing back an old tradition.

Back in the days when Krags & New Springfields were used by the National Guard, some units reloaded their own empty cases.  The standard bullet used was 311241.  The standard load was 10.5 grains of SR-80.  This combination worked so well that it was loaded by Frankford Arsenal as the M-1919 Gallery Practice Load and as the M-1 Guard Load.  The load gave about 1150 fps & was even used on indoor ranges.  SR-4759 is the latter day replacement for SR-80.



Excellent points!  I highly recommend Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Hand Loading" (1937). It is a great read for any hand loader and as reincarnated so rightly states, a wealth of information from the transition period between black powder shooting and the onset of Magnumitis. Loads of information on cast boolit loads (of course, powders have changed in formulation since then, so it is a guide rather than a a source of safe data). Below is a link to a free online copy (I downloaded to my Kindle) and the 30-40 load data, including cast data for most of the then IMR powders (3031, 4064, 4198) as well as Unique and SR80 (predecessor to SR4759) starts on page 378 of the download (371 of the book). Indeed his charge foor then IMR4198 with a 220 gr Lubaloy bullet is right on for my current charge of H4198 with Lyman 311284 GC at 210 gr.

(You need to Login to view media files and links)

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo