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Krag grading (Read 37309 times)

amb4JC KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 11 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2014 Gender:	Krag grading Feb 18^th, 2014 at 1:19am	Print Post
	I currently own a 1895/1896 Krag transition carbine that has an 1895 date and no model prefix and a serial number of #27771.� I was told it is rare and that there were only about 7,000 of these made.� It's in great condition.� The stock is stamped P.S.A.L N.Y.C.� I pulled up the blue book of gun values and based on their grading I thought it was between 95-98%.� Do you know how to confirm the grading?


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Krag grading Reply #1 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:58am	Print Post
	Any one know what "P.S.A.L." stands for (Public School? American Legion?)? I imagine the stock marking negatively effects the value of this nice carbine, unless it is a known Military Unit. 95-98% is too high a grading IMHO. It appears there are some fine stock cracks. There is minor surface rust on parts that should be bright. There are a lot of areas not in photos, so impossible to assess. How is the bore? Are the sights correct? Grading is tricky and has to take into account 'the whole package'.


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amb4JC KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 11 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #2 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 3:25am	Print Post
	Thanks for you feedback. The bore and barrel has some wear but overall in good shape. Please clarify are the sights correct? They appear original and I have never fired it.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Krag grading Reply #3 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 3:49am	Print Post
	"P.S.A.L." NYC probably stands for Public School Athletic League. NYC once allowed marksmanship competition in the public schools (gasp). Your rear sight should have small "C" on right side of base. Ladder increments should go up to 20 (2,000 yards) and have "C" above 19. Similar looking model 1896 Rifle sight only goes up to 18. Carbine rear sight is worth about $500 and often switched by profiteers!


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amb4JC KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 11 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #4 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 3:53am	Print Post
	The rear sight does go up to 20 and has the small c above the 19.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Krag grading Reply #5 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 4:38am	Print Post
	Great!� (An 1896 Carbine front sight blade is also marked with a small "C", which is usually hidden by the sight base.� The blade by itself should be approximately .265" tall).� 'amb4jc', it looks like you have a legitimate and desirable Model 1896 carbine in very good condition.� The P.S.A.L. NYC stock marking gives it an interesting civilian provenance, once it left U.S. Military service.� Please post some more pictures of your carbine for our enjoyment. Welcome to the KCA Forum!


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #6 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 5:55am	Print Post
	It's a very nice, and correct, carbine, but not (IMHO) a 95-98% piece - there is a lot of wear on the grasping grooves (aka lightening cuts) in the forestock. When new, those edges were really sharp and crisp.


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #7 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 4:42pm	Print Post
	butlersrangers wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:58am: Any one know what "P.S.A.L." stands for (Public School? American Legion?)?� I think it's "Paul Steinmayer's Arms Limited"... How's that sound?


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Krag grading Reply #8 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 5:00pm	Print Post
	P.S.A.L. NYC = Paul Steinmayer Arms Luster - Not Your Carbine!


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #9 - Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:18pm	Print Post
	LOL Ok then!


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reincarnated KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 562 Joined: Mar 11^th, 2012	Re: Krag grading Reply #10 - Feb 20^th, 2014 at 8:49am	Print Post
	PSAL?� About 4 years ago, I was doing some research for an article I wrote about Winder Muskets.� I came across 4 issues of the NY Times, about 1907 & 1908, in which they reported on something called "schoolboy matches" held as a part of a big sportsmans' show, maybe in Madison Square Garden.� The issues were 2 consecutive week-ends, maybe in April (?) for two consecutive years.� The article reported the boy shooters names & scores and told which school they represented.� It explained that the match was shot with .22s on a range on the main floor.� After the match, the boys were allowed to go to the range in the basement, where they were allowed to shoot the Krag and the Maxim gun.� When I read that, I could not imagine letting high school kids shoot a Krag with 220 grain military ammo in the basement.� I assumed that the kids were shooting GPRs.� Now I am not so sure.� There was an official gallery load for the Krag.� It was reportedly quite inaccurate, which led to the Stevens-Pope conversions, the subsequent Army political flap and the eventual production of GPRs in 1907-1908.� I assumed that with the GPR, the Krag gallery load was abandoned.� But surely enough could be found to let each kid bang away with a Krag a few times.� I further assumed that the kids were allowed to touch and play with the Maxim. After this, I am not so sure.� If allowed to do so, I would be first in line to fire a Krag gallery load in a Maxim. My view is that PSAL-NYC may well increase the value of that particular carbine, if some supporting documents can be found. There are still thousands of complete & authentic carbines and tens of thousands of similar infantry rifles. But has anyone ever seen that stock marking before?


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amb4JC KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 11 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #11 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 9:08pm	Print Post
	Thanks for all the information. I am going to be selling it, but it appears the classified section is not used often on this site. Is there a site for antique gun sales that you could recommend?


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #12 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:24pm	Print Post
	Yes. (You need to *Login* to view media files and links)


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reincarnated KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 562 Joined: Mar 11^th, 2012	Re: Krag grading Reply #13 - Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:12am	Print Post
	What is the difference between grasping grooves and lightening cuts? I always thought that lightening cuts were made on the interior of rifle stocks.


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amb4JC KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 11 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Krag grading Reply #14 - Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:21am	Print Post
	Thanks. It is listed on Gunbroker per your suggestion.


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