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 25 Krag beats the Enfield. (Read 15533 times)
waterdogg
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Krag beats the Enfield.
Mar 13th, 2014 at 10:49pm
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I found this while doing some research on a Enfield I'm looking for. Wanted to share this with my fellow Krag lovers, This guy could have used some Krag Chargers. (You need to Login to view media files and links)        
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #1 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 12:41am
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Amazing video... thanks much for sharing!

(if that guy wants some chargers, I'll be happy to sell him a couple  Wink )
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #2 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 1:30am
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The guy with the Krag was just the better shooter of the two, I think.  10rd stripper for the Enfield?  How about two fives.  If it was 10, that's cheating!  Yea the Krag shooter should've ordered some chargers, he'd have really ripped the Enfield then.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 2:29am
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Neither the Krag nor the S.M.L.E. exhibited feeding problems.  Pretty good performance of rifles using rimmed cartridges.  Be fun to enter a Spanish Model 1893  or Boer Model 1896 Mauser in the contest!  (I bet 'Jimmy" would have done better than either of those blokes)!
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 11:55am
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I find it interesting that the guy with the Enfield stated "I have a longer barrel" and yet was bested by a Krag Carbine with a shorter barrel.  In my opinion, the Krag may not be the easiest to load... but is by-far the most accurate!  Oh, and the times weren't that far apart either... considering the guy loaded the Krag one cartridge at a time (he could have stripped five out of his belt and then dumped all five in at once... and save a few seconds).
  
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cdagnese
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 1:10pm
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I think that the guy with the Krag should have carried the catridges loose rather in a belt.  The reason the Krag was such a popular sporter in cold country is that you could load it even with mittens on.  Just throw 5 cartridges in the trap door and slam it shut.  I've never seen a rag magazine jam up.

Another point.    Due to their design (two piece stock and uneven flexing of the receiver and rear lug lockup of the bolt), the Mk 1 and Mk 4 Enfields were inherently inaccurate rifles, accurate enough for field use but not for serious target shooting or competition.  I'd pick the Krag every time (although I may be a little prejudice).
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #6 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 2:46pm
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cdagnese:  You have your Lee-Enfield nomenclature wrong.  I believe you are referring to the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield Mark III (later called the Number 1 Rifle, Mark III) and the Number 4 Rifle, Mark I.  You are correct in pointing out some inherent 'engineering' weaknesses of the Lee-Enfield design.  The U.S. Krag also has some 'flaws':  single locking lug and inherently fragile stock.  I would agree with your view that most Krags seem to be a tad more accurate than Lee-Enfield rifles.  (I personally have found my Krags to be gentler on brass).  But, there are some Lee-Enfield Rifles that are fine performers and the Brits were certainly able to tune them up for fine match performance.  In all fairness, accuracy expectations should be about the same for a L-E or Krag.  (My Remington 1903-A3 beats them both)!  If these guys were really comparing Apples and Apples, they would have used earlier Lee-Enfield infantry or cavalry models that did not have 'charger-loading' capability.  After 10 rounds, the Krag would have had the loading advantage.  
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 3:14pm
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What I particularly cannot stand is the absolutely inane dialog/script of 99% of such productions!!

Some questions about the "Enfield". Did they ever carry spare loaded magazines? IIRC the mag of the Jungle carbine (wish I'd kept it, though I do not know if is was real or fake) I once owned was removable. Did anyone else catch "10rd. stripper clip"? I thought they used two fives?
  
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gunboat57
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #8 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 3:35pm
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On the SMLEs and No4 Mk1 I own, the magazines are numbered to the rifle.  Someone can correct me, but reloading was done through stripper clips only, not by inserting a fresh loaded magazine.
  

Tom P.
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #9 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 3:36pm
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Dick:  Madsenshooter caught the error about the 10 rd 'stripper' (The British actually call them 'chargers').  The early Lee-Metford Mark I had an eight round magazine ('chain linked') to the trigger-guard.  I believe the intent was to have spare magazines.  The British abandoned this idea and increased magazine capacity to 10 rounds and continued to 'link' the magazine to the guard.  'Charger-loading' was developed around 1902 for the Lee-Enfield, due to Boer War experience.  The State of Michigan issued spare magazines with their Model 1899 Remington-Lee Rifles in .30-40.  There were pockets on the Mills belts for the spare mags.  Although the British Lee-Enfield magazines are easily removeable, this feature was not really exploited and charger-loading made it unnecessary.
  
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cdagnese
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #10 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 3:41pm
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butlersrangers:

You're correct about the nomenclature.  My bad.    While the Brits made some decent match grade rifles out of derivatives of the Enfield, the field grade guns were notoriously inaccurate compared to the Krag. 
They built rifles like they built sports cars.  The Enfield also has a notoriously weak receiver.  Headspace problems are a constant problem with Enfield rifles.  Ask any one who reloads .303 British about stretched cases. The rear locking lug bolt design is a rather poor example of the gunmaker's art - ergo, the accuracy of the Mauser type action with it's forward dual locking lugs and the P13 and P14 American made Enfields.
  
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waterdogg
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #11 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 3:49pm
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If I remember right it was said Americans made the best target rifles, Germans made the most dependable, and the best battle rifle. After the U.S. Army converted to the O3 the National Guard would often beat them in matches with the Krags, because Krags were more accurate. The krag guy had the advantage because he had prior training on similar courses, that taught him to ignore the explosions and focus on the targets. I own several old guns my sporterized Krag is my favorite. I have a 1916 German Mauser Gew98 that I grouped a 5 shot pattern at 200 yrds with all 5 shots in a dime size hole. Still working on the krags aiming.
  
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Top Dean
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #12 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 5:17pm
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we guys I own most of the rifles that have been talked about and my No4MkIII is extreamly acurate. I love them all but have never tried to see which one is the most acurate. You have to one at least one before you can talk factually about them. My Enfilelds are great rifles, I have a sprot rifle, a full military both No4MkIIIs and one No5, they all shoot good but the full miliarty sots the best of all. I have a 03, 2 Garands, a M1 carbine, 2 Mod 98 Mousers and a Gew88, a Jap Arusockie 7.7, 3 differnt model Krags so I can speck from a position of knowledge on this one. My Krag can rapid fire standing at 75 feet and put then in a 5 in groupe.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 7:21pm
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Crazy as it may sound, the most accurate milsurp I ever owned was a 1918-vintage Lithgow No.1MkIII*. The stars must have been in perfect alignment when they built that one. It would shoot bug-hole groups all day long. What's even more weird was the Nazi acceptance marks all over it. I figured it was a Dunkirk pick-up. That one could've told some stories I'll bet. Yet another one I should have kept...
  
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waterdogg
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Re: Krag beats the Enfield.
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 7:34pm
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Well you guys are talking about the Enfield rifle not being that good of a rifle is news to me. Both of my Enfield rifles are very accurate rifles. as a matter of fact the record of the mad minute is 38 hits on a 12X12 target 300 yrds away. Lee Enfield's are only loaded with 5 round stripper clips because they were easier to carry and the Mag can only take 5 rounds at a time. When they changed to 308 the box mag had the same problem that it could only take 5 rounds at a time from a 10 round stripper clip.
Hey DICK as to my limited knowledge the only fake Jungle Carbine was or is made by Gibbs Manufacturing here in West Virginia and it has a nickel finish, It is a beautiful riffle and I think it's only in 308. OK DICK I just unlimited my knowledge a little bit they did make them in black. (You need to Login to view media files and links)
  
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