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 10 Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem (Read 9339 times)
JWWFM
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Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Apr 27th, 2015 at 4:11am
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I have the same problem on both of my 1898 US Springfield Krags -- rounds jam as the bolt picks up the rim of the case. Happens with factory ammo as well as reloads with spitzer bullets and round nose bullets. Reloaded spitzers are shorter than max COL, round nose are right at max COL. Sometimes a really hard whack on the bolt handle chambers the round -- I only try that with dummy rounds-- and it appears that the edge of the feed ramp or chamber is shaving a tiny piece off the bullet tip on one side. The case seems to be out of position as I start the bolt forward and may be rising after it is too far forward. If before I move the bolt forward I slightly click the cutoff lever toward "off" (to cut off the magazine feed) it bumps the round up toward the bolt about 1/8" and then everything works until the last round. The last round won't come up to the bolt. Could the problem be in the magazine spring? I'd appreciate any ideas on what to check or adjust.
  
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Ned Butts
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2015 at 11:03am
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It sounds like you are headed in the right direction. I would examine the cut off for defects ad/or replace it. Also it seems that the follower spring is weak if the last round will not push up into place so replacing that should help.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2015 at 5:27pm
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"JWWFM": Welcome to the KCA Forum. I'm sorry you are having magazine feed problems with both of your Model 1898 Krags. It is interesting that the same problem is being encountered on two rifles and with all types of ammo (RN & Spitzers, Factory and Re-loads). Since, you describe 'fiddling with the cut-off to get cartridges in position', I think your problem is not just concerning the last cartridge. I took the liberty of posting a response in another similar thread so that it appears near to this one. It may be helpful to you.

FWIW: I measured the OAL of two original Krag military rounds, Frankford Arsenal '98 (3.060") and Kynoch '99 (3.082"). I reload mainly 165grain and 168grain Spitzers to a maximum 3.087" OAL and have had no feed problems in my 1898 and 1899 Krags. (It does not appear you have a problem with your ammo).

Over the years, I have had the pleasure of being the custodian of 11 U.S. Krags and 1 Norwegian (a mixture of original and sporterized). I have had the good fortune of no broken or weak magazine-door/follower springs (a surprisingly rare event) or of blatant feeding problems.

I think the following are the most likely 'suspects':

1. Old dried grease and crud inhibiting the movement of the follower arm/carrier assembly or the single flat spring that powers it, while that spring also keeps tension on the magazine door.

2. Old crud or damage to the inside of the side-plate which prevents cartridges smoothly traveling up its inside radius. The side plate should be clean and fully seated against the receiver.

3. The possibility of Model 1896 parts (side-plate and/or follower/carrier assembly) on a Model 1898 action (Unlikely on both rifles, but, model 1896 parts are different and would likely cause feed issues).

4. The Magazine Spring is weak or broken. This is unlikely on both rifles. If the spring was broken, there would be no cartridge feed. A weak spring would be evidenced by 'wimpy' magazine-door action.

Recommendation - next post
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2015 at 1:05am by butlersrangers »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #3 - Apr 27th, 2015 at 6:55pm
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'JWWFM': I recommend you remove your Krag's barreled action from the stock. Remove the side-plate and do a visual and tactile inspection of the cartridge feed-path. With the magazine-door closed, Push the follower/carrier inward and test smoothness and spring function. (Follower should project out of the side of receiver, when side-plate is off). It does not take tremendous spring pressure to feed the Krag, just a full range of motion.

Turn the 'head' of the Magazine-door hinge pin, gently lifting up on its flat spring. It rotates open like a door and exposes the tip of the follower/magazine-door spring, where it engages the cam of the follower/carrier arm (clean and lightly lubricate this contact point).

Clean all surfaces with Hoppes #9 on patches and Q-tips. Work the magazine cut-off and observe how it functions. Remove all hardened grease from metal parts and check for obstructions, bent or damaged parts, and burrs. Lightly! lubricate metal surfaces with a film of CLP on a dampened patch.

I hope this helps you.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 1:36am
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Model 1898/1899 Krag cut-off function:

1. When the cut-off lever is 'down' the cut-off shaft rotates into a position that pushes the lead cartridge down and thus prevents the rim from making contact with the bolt face.

2. When the cut-off lever is 'up' the cut-off shaft is flush with the receiver wall opening and the lead cartridge rises higher. Its rim will make contact with the bolt face as it moves forward.

  
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JWWFM
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 2:57am
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Thank you all very much for your quick responses -- this is very helpful information. As soon as I have a chance to work on this I'll let you know how it goes.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #6 - Apr 29th, 2015 at 12:31am
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I took a real clear picture today that shows the model 1898 Krag action with the cut-off lever in the 'down' position. The round portion of the cut-off shaft is visible. This blocks the lead cartridge from getting in the path of the bolt.

The second picture shows the flat portion of the cut-off shaft. This allows the lead cartridge and those that follow to pass through to the bolt.
  
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kerry49
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #7 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:13pm
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Decided to resurrect this old thread as a good starting point to my problem. I have an1898 action that I would like to put together for a carbine configuration. Unfortunately rounds jam in the magazine when trying to feed them. Even the first one with a full magazine. I took a look as Butlersrangers suggested and it appears that my carrier/follower does not come out as far as shown in the pictures here. I manipulated the carrier with my finger but it stops short of fully extended. It's a hard stop too, will not come out any farther. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.
Kerry
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #8 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:13pm
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1. Dirt, crud, dried grease or debris interfering with parts moving. Some lubrication (fine grease) needed on carrier-follower cam and spring tip.

2. Broken magazine-gate/carrier-follower spring. (Rare)

3. Follower-carrier assembly bent, damaged, or small pin, that holds follower in carrier, is out of position and causing drag.

4. Wrong carrier-follower assembly. (Assemblies changed over evolution of U.S. Krag models).

Other related issues: (Something wrong with magazine cut-off function, side-plate, or receiver feed-path surfaces).
  
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kerry49
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #9 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:46pm
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BR, thanks for your reply. All the parts were cleaned and oiled, the flat spring is from S&S firearms. The carrier motion is a little sticky like there may be some rubbing. How do I tell if I have the "right" carrier? Sn is in the 185k range. It was not easy getting this contraption assembled, so I am reluctant to do it again, but it looks like it mig.h be necessary. I really appreciate the help.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #10 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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Joe Poyer's book, "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine", has dimensions and descriptions of the changes to carrier-arm/follower (assembly) parts.

I would personally focus on what is causing the assembly to 'drag' or limit its travel, at the end.

Pay especial attention to the 'pivot pin' that the follower hinges on in the carrier-arm. The ends of this pin should be flush and smooth.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #11 - Jul 14th, 2018 at 2:09pm
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Hints for disassembly and assembly of U.S. Krag Magazine-Gate, spring, and follower-arm assembly.

1. Leave side-plate off of action until everything else is back together.

2. Use 'padded' (masking or electrical tape on contact surfaces) "C" Clamp to compress and hold Magazine-Gate against spring pressure and align hinge-pin holes.

3. Use a fine File to remove burrs or distortion from the tip of Hinge-Pin, before 'working it' back into place.
(Alignment and smoothness can be tested by trying gate and hinge-pin on receiver, without spring and follower-arm).
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #12 - Jul 14th, 2018 at 11:04pm
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Note - A gentleman on another forum, (Military Surplus Guns Forum), solved his 'last cartridge feed problem', today, by changing the 'follower-arm/magazine-gate' spring.
  
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kerry49
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #13 - Jul 15th, 2018 at 12:46am
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Thanks again for all the great information. I've been following that Milsurps forum discussion as well. I disassembled the mechanism today along with comparing function to a rifle I have that functions well. The travel of the carrier arm is limited. It rides lower in the magazine than the one in the good rifle, but no interference. I tried the second spare spring I had with the same result. I even tried prying it out farther but it's a dead stop. What other part could limit the range of motion. The follower pin is flush. I've ordered another carrier/follower from granpa's gun parts but it will be awhile before I get it. I think they are on vacation. Still a mystery.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Advice Needed on Magazine Feed Problem
Reply #14 - Jul 15th, 2018 at 4:10am
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Photos of your parts might help get a diagnosis.

Maybe your parts are incorrect replacements ( Early U.S., Danish or Norwegian)? Any serial numbers on follower/carrier-arm assembly? A U.S. model 1898 carrier will not have numbers.

Make sure the tip of your spring is properly engaging the cam on the follower/carrier-arm.

Compare your parts with photo from Grandpa's Gun Parts:
  
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