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 25 Reloading for 35/40 Krag (Read 18951 times)
Parashooter
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #15 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 5:01pm
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FredC wrote on Oct 30th, 2015 at 2:54pm:
. . .On your chart with the software estimate pressures it has a 250 grain bullet and not the 220 grain I intend to use. Is that correct? If so then 45 grains of varget with a 220 grain bullet should really be in a safe territory. . .
I have also given some thought to this apparent equality of the 308 30/40 at 40K cup and thought about the difference in the shoulder angle. This will become less of a difference with 35 caliber as there is a lot less shoulder remaining. . .
I have a theory why some of these old Krags may be developing more bolt thrust with what should be safe loads. On the barrel that I took off this gun the chamber was .010 oversize for some distance from the rim. Could it be the case can not swell enough at that point to grip the barrel and allows the case to stretch and slide back with too much thrust on the bolt?

1. If you want more precise estimates from QL, you have to provide the overflow water capacity, as suggested earlier. Please note that I'm just providing examples of what you could do with QuickLOAD.

2. Shoulder shape/angle has been consistently demonstrated to have negligible effect on pressure with normal loads of conventional components in cases of equal volume.

3. Chamber .010" over case body diameter is completely normal. SAAMI minimum cartridge base: .453", maximum chamber base: .464". This has no practical effect on case/chamber adhesion or "bolt thrust".
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #16 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 8:17pm
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"1. If you want more precise estimates from QL, you have to provide the overflow water capacity, as suggested earlier. Please note that I'm just providing examples of what you could do with QuickLOAD."
How is overflow water capacity obtained? I would think it would be with the water capacity of the case with the bullet installed? I am thinking I would pop the primer and fill a case with the bullet installed using a hypodermic through the primer hole, then compare before and after weights? I have a digital scale with .0005 lb increments or a power scale that measures  to .1 grain.

"2. Shoulder shape/angle has been consistently demonstrated to have negligible effect on pressure with normal loads of conventional components in cases of equal volume."
This means Roy Weatherby was a snake oil sales man? I sorta figured that

"3. Chamber .010" over case body diameter is completely normal. SAAMI minimum cartridge base: .453", maximum chamber base: .464". This has no practical effect on case/chamber adhesion or "bolt thrust"."
Learn something new everyday, thanks. Hope I can remember it all.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #17 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 10:28pm
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Posted earlier:
"If you want to use QuickLOAD to estimate loads for your .35 Krag, measure the difference in weight between an empty case and the same one filled to overflowing with water. That will yield a maximum volume from which QL will calculate usable volume for any given bullet and seating depth."

Trying to clarify the procedure -
1. Take an empty case with a spent primer in it.
2. Weigh the case on your powder scale.
3. Fill the case to overflowing with water.
4. Weigh it again.
5. Subtract the empty weight from the water-filled weight.
6. Using the density of liquid water as a constant, QuickLOAD converts its weight to volume (in cubic centimeters).
7. QuickLOAD calculates the volume occupied by the seated bullet and subtracts that from the overflow volume to yield the remaining volume.
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2015 at 5:58pm by Parashooter »  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #18 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 2:48am
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Parashooter,
This is what I got on capacity of the case:
60.9 grains of water
It turns out the bullets in hand are 200 grain Sierra round nose, bullet number 2800. These bullets have a .290 inch measurement from the base to the center of the cannalure if that is needed.
I will probably use 220 grain in the future.
Is your QuickLOAD program still available and what is the learning curve like?
Thanks
FredC
  
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Parashooter
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Kragmudgeon

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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #19 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:38am
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QuickLOAD/QuickTARGET version 3.9 is supplied with a comprehensive "USER FRIENDLY" MANUAL included on the QuickLOAD CD-ROM disk. (You need to Login to view media files and links)

$152.95 plus S&H

New CD-ROM version 3.9 requires Windows XP, Vista, W-7, W-8 or W-10

(You need to Login to view media files and links)
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #20 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:08pm
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Parashooter,
Thanks. My copy should be here today.

Anyone,
Just started reassembling everything and the loaded cartridge now sits level when in the position to be pushed into the chamber. I drop the same cartridge into my original Krag and it is pointed up and feeds normally. The only thing close to a modification on this sporter since I started, was to polish some bugged up spots inside the sideplate. Is there a way to assemble the cartridge pusher wrong or did the polishing mess things up? This sporter was apart for 2 years with most of the pieces in a drawer till now, it did feed normally before I started.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #21 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 4:43pm
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Experiment and try switching Krag side-plates to see if they function differently in positioning/feeding your .35 caliber cartridges.
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #22 - Nov 9th, 2015 at 3:15pm
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Thanks Butlersrangers.
I had swapped side plates with just a little difference going both ways. Part of the problem was I was experimenting with out the action fully assembled. Leaving the magazine cutoff out causes major problems as well as causing damage to the rims.
After figuring that out I did some minor polishing on the upper region of the side plate, as well as enlarging the ID radius leading into the chamber. Not perfect yet but I have a plan.
I made up some dummy 308 cartridges of what was used before the conversion and they did not feed that well either, I had just not noticed.
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #23 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:59pm
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Hello Parashooter.
I have been running this QuickLoad today and to see if it was acting right, I ran the earlier mentioned 4350 loads with 220 grain bullets in 30/40. With the 41.5 grains mentioned that cracked a bolt Q/L shows that is under the 47,137PSI safe value but unknown tolerances may cause dangerous pressures! With 40. grains of 4350 it suggest to check loading manuals because secondary explosive effects are possible.

Switching to 35/40 it shows 47 grains of Varget to be a compressed charge and tolerances could cause dangerous pressures. No such warning at 46 grains, with 3300 FPS velocity, almost exactly half way between 30 Remington and 358 Winchester with a 200 grain bullet! I am thinking I will fireform one case at 40 grains and double check the water volume.
If all checks out I will use 46 as max and look for a load in the 42 to 45 range that is accurate and does not kick too hard. I weighed the completed rifle and right at 9 LBS, 1 pound less than a scoped 1917 Enfield.
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #24 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 10:39pm
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Tied the 35/40 to a chair and started with 40.0g Varget, pulled the trigger with a string and went as expected.
Next shot with 43.0 grains, no problems.
Next shot with 46.0 grains, was also uneventful.
I had refigured for a compressed load and got 47.2 grains, so I loaded this as a proof load as Q/L still showed it to be safe. Same results, no signs of pressure. When I checked the powder depth with 47.2 grains, it was still not a compressed load, so the case capacity of the unfired Remington case is greater than I originally figured.
The 47.2G fired case is on the left an unfired case on the right, the shoulder did move at least .010 on the fired case. I will need to refigure after checking water capacity as the fired case will have more volume. (see photo below on optical comparator)
After untying the rifle form the chair I fired one 43 grain round offhand and it was not unpleasant.

Here piggy piggy! (insert smiley here)
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #25 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 12:18am
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FredC wrote on Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:59pm:
Switching to 35/40 it shows 47 grains of Varget to be a compressed charge and tolerances could cause dangerous pressures. No such warning at 46 grains, with 3300 FPS velocity, almost exactly half way between 35 Remington and 358 Winchester with a 200 grain bullet!

Just revisited this post and noticed a typo. the 3300 FPS should have been 2300 FPS. 3300 would be an insane magnum velocity!
Yes that was another typo should have been 35 Remington. The problem with proofing your own material is you see what you actually meant instead of what you typed. Getting old does not help either! Getting old sure beats the alternative which is dying young.
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2017 at 4:48pm by FredC »  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #26 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 4:30pm
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And should it not also be .35 Remington?
  
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FredC
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Re: Reloading for 35/40 Krag
Reply #27 - Nov 30th, 2017 at 4:49pm
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Dick,
Thanks,
Fred
  
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