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Real carbine? (Read 3596 times)

Dragon KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Location: Northern Minnesota Joined: Dec 28^th, 2015 Gender:	Real carbine? Jan 6^th, 2016 at 3:43am	Print Post
	I have an opportunity to buy what is being presented as a 1902 carbine at a local sporting goods store. The serial number is 355184. The rear sight does not have a "c" stamped on the left side. The cartouche is correct (1902) and the proof test "p" is there behind the trigger guard. What else should I look for to authenticate it before I lay out a grand for it? Thanks for your help. P.S. It has the lump of protective wood on the hand guard right in front of the rear sight.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Real carbine? Reply #1 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:22am	Print Post
	"Dragon" - There is no "model 1902 Krag carbine". There are model 1899 Krag carbines built in 1901 or 1902 and accepted ('cartouche' dated) in 1902. #355,184 would probably have been assembled around November, 1901. A 1902 'cartouche' date is believable. A carbine receiver should say 'model 1899', if it is in the #355,184 serial number range. Model 1899 Krags were only built as carbines. If the receiver says 'model 1898', it is a cut down rifle. I am concerned the rear-sight is missing a "C" marking. If it is a real carbine, this indicates the correct sight has been replaced with a rifle sight. Real carbine sights start at $200 (1901 type) and go up to $600 (1896 type), when loose ones can be found. I can't tell by your description which hand-guard and rear sight this Krag has. There are two different carbine hand-guards that have a sight protecting "lump" (the two on the right in this KCA Photo). One is for the 1896 carbine rear-sight (1899 in picture). The other is for the 1901 type carbine rear-sight (1902 in picture). Very careful attention needs to be paid to the front sight base and its attachment to the barrel. Also, a Krag carbine barrel measures exactly 22" from muzzle to closed bolt-face. Lots of fake carbines are cut-down rifles with 'banded' front-sights added. Value depends on condition, correctness, condition, and condition.


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Dragon KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Location: Northern Minnesota Joined: Dec 28^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Real carbine? Reply #2 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 3:00pm	Print Post
	I was remiss in not stating that it was a model 1899 with a 1902 cartouche on the wood. The front sight is soldered on. I own a cut down, "Bannerman", job that I enjoy shooting very much. To my recollection the hand guard is the last one to the right in your photo. I'll go back and look and at that time try to identify the type of rear sight. The reason I'm asking all these questions is that they have a price of $1,045 on it and I really don't want to get stung. Thank you for your swift reply to my original query too.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Real carbine? Reply #3 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 4:11pm	Print Post
	Dragon: IMHO, the bore, metal, and wood should be mighty nice (and not refinished) for a model 1899 carbine, with incorrect/rifle rear-sight, to be worth $1,000. It will cost you $200 and some effort to find a correct 1901 carbine rear-sight. (Fortunately, it is the most common and least expensive of the carbine rear-sights). Springfield Armory did not 'solder' front sights on the barrel. The front-sight base is almost invisibly 'dove-tailed', contoured, and brazed in place on the barrel. The 1899 carbine front-sight blade is pinned in its slot (in the base) and a small "c" is visible on the right-side of the blade. (If the blade has been changed, they are almost impossible to find). This photo by 'parashooter' clearly shows how a Krag front-sight base is attached. 2nd photo shows my carbine front-sight.


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Dragon KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Location: Northern Minnesota Joined: Dec 28^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Real carbine? Reply #4 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 8:08pm	Print Post
	Thanks for the photos. The way your front sight looks is like the one I'm looking at. My terminology may not be very good for a while as I pick things up. I'll see if they will let me take some photos of it to show you. The wood looks original. The rifling looks clean but well used. There is no apparent rust anywhere. It has been there for a year or so on consignment. Maybe I'll ask them to pass along an offer of $800 to the owner. You never know.


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Dragon KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Location: Northern Minnesota Joined: Dec 28^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Real carbine? Reply #5 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:24am	Print Post
	Thank you for all your help. There are no "c" markings anywhere, not on the front sight, not on the rear sight, not on the bolt and not on the butt plate. This looks to be a constructed carbine and not an original. They wouldn't let me take pictures of it which made me doubly suspicious. Oh and the hand guard was an 1896. Again, thanks for the help.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Real carbine? Reply #6 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 4:23am	Print Post
	Model 1899 Krags were only built as carbines. During their service four carbine rear sights saw use: model 1898 (which was later removed from service), model 1896, model 1901, and model 1902. It is possible some one removed an 1896 carbine rear-sight to sell it separately. (They can bring $500-600). If a Krag was used for Hunting, the front-sight blade was often replaced with a commercial one. Also, the carbine front-sight blade, that was used with the model 1896 carbine rear-sight, is shorter and its "c" mark is hidden, when the blade is in place. (My picture shows the higher "c" blade that was used with 1901 and 1902 carbine sights). There was never a "C" marking put on Krag carbine bolts or butt-plates. (I don't know what gave you that idea)?


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