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Peculiar shooting position (Read 7110 times)

butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Peculiar shooting position Jan 17^th, 2017 at 5:15am	Print Post
	Has anyone ever tried this? Colonel Winder (of .22cal. Winder-Musket fame) shooting a 1903 Springfield at Camp Perry. He is shooting right-handed in the 'Sitting' position, but, appears to be Aiming with his Left Eye. I am guessing the distance to the target must be 200 to 500 yards, looking at the position of the Slide on the Sight Leaf. (I don't know which sight notch or aperture he is using. I think Three are possible). Explanations??? Was Col. Winder right-handed, but, Left-Eye dominant? Was he having a problem with his right-eye? Maybe due to stock 'drop' and elevation of slide, using the Left Eye allowed a firm 'Cheek-Weld' on stock comb and good neck/head support? This picture has always looked odd to me. Today, I realized why. (BTW - Lt. Col Winder, Ohio N.G. Born in 1874 & died in 1921, Palm Beach, Fla. He was an Ohio volunteer and Corporal in the SAW. He won the Leech Cup in 1903 and became an Aviation pioneer in 1912).
	« Last Edit: Jan 17^th, 2017 at 6:42am by butlersrangers »

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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #1 - Jan 17^th, 2017 at 11:53am	Print Post
	My guess would be that he's left-eye dominant (or perhaps had an injury to his right eye and had to learn to use his left to sight). Judging by how low his head is, I would say he's firing at 200 and using the bottom peep aperture. Great picture Chuck!


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Culpeper KCA Forum Member Offline Posts: 904 Location: Right Coast of Africa Joined: Mar 30^th, 2005	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #2 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 1:41am	Print Post
	Where do you find these great photos? Wish I had that rifle. It looks new.
	« Last Edit: Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:31pm by Culpeper »
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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #3 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 4:48am	Print Post
	That photo is from the 'Bain News Service Collection' in the Library of Congress Digital Collections (viewable online). That Springfield rifle was 'new' when the photo was taken. (Note that the hand-guard is the 'non-grooved' type). One of the Col. Winder photos is dated 8/8/11. I just found this Camp Perry photo of Col. A. C. Sharpe dated 8/9/1911.


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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #4 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 6:15am	Print Post
	butlersrangers wrote on Jan 17^th, 2017 at 5:15am: . . . He is shooting right-handed in the 'Sitting' position, but, appears to be Aiming with his Left Eye. . . I doubt he's using his left eye - unless aiming at something very distant and considerably downslope. (You need to *Login* to view media files and links)


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #5 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 6:22am	Print Post
	'Parashooter' - Thanks for the graphics and observation. I thought possibly he was using the "V" Notch on the top of the elevation-slide, rather than the lower apertures.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2017 at 3:31pm by butlersrangers »

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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #6 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 11:50am	Print Post
	Ok... now I need MY head examined! I suffered a total brain fart!!! I looked at the picture and for some ridiculous reason thought his right eye was his left when I made my reply!!! Thanks Para for helping me to see the light, so to speak. Ok, I need more caffeine in my morning coffee... LOL


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #7 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 3:38pm	Print Post
	Maybe the good Colonel is just resting between shots .... or he is built really funny? If I put my head on the comb of my model 1903 like that, my right eye will 'sight' underneath the Bolt Handle!


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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #8 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 5:55pm	Print Post
	butlersrangers wrote on Jan 18^th, 2017 at 6:22am: . . . I thought possibly he was using the "V" Notch on the top of the elevation-slide, rather than the lower apertures. OK, but that upper notch goes down only to some 1500 yards. That's a long shot from sitting! An old trick for elevating the eye with a low-comb stock is to rest cheek on thumb wrapped around stock wrist. Could be in operation here. (Not recommended for short-fingered folks! )


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #9 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 6:33pm	Print Post
	New theories: 1. The Colonel is aiming 'Left-Eyed' through the slide 'notch', not at the 'Bull', but, at a low part of his target frame or position number to have a more consistent sight-picture. 2. He is relaxing his neck muscles before holding his head 'up' to take a 'Right-Eye' shot and the photographer caught this moment. 3. He is hanging his head in disbelief that a photographer is standing in front of the 'Firing Line' on a Live Range! All I know for sure about the situation is that Lt. Col. Charles B. Winder was competent and knew what he was doing in August, 1911, (and I'm wondering about it over 115 years later)!


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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #10 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 9:29pm	Print Post
	butlersrangers wrote on Jan 18^th, 2017 at 6:33pm: . . . Winder was competent and knew what he was doing in August, 1911, (and I'm wondering about it over 115 years later)! 1911 +115 2026 Are you posting from the future and do you have any stock market tips for us?


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #11 - Jan 18^th, 2017 at 10:21pm	Print Post
	Just seeing if anyone is paying attention. "psteinmayer" and "Culpeper" made me do it!


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #12 - Jan 19^th, 2017 at 11:40am	Print Post
	HEY???!!! Ok, yeah, ya got me... I did make you do it... but I did it with "Krag" Love!!!


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Culpeper KCA Forum Member Offline Posts: 904 Location: Right Coast of Africa Joined: Mar 30^th, 2005	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #13 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:35pm	Print Post
	butlersrangers wrote on Jan 18^th, 2017 at 10:21pm: Just seeing if anyone is paying attention. "psteinmayer" and "Culpeper" made me do it! Huh? what? (rousing out of a dozing sleep) I did? Son of a gun. Send me a memo before I do that next time. I checked my spreadsheet of the 1898 Ohio Roster and found this on Corporal Winder. Unit - 3rd OVI D Co. Name - Winder, Charles B. Rank - Corporal Residence - N. Lewisburg Age - 23 Remarks - Promoted Corporal July 1, 1898, R. O. 56 July 9, 1898. In Quarantine Hosp. Columbus, Ohio, May 15 to June 17, 1898.
	« Last Edit: Jan 21^st, 2017 at 8:47pm by Culpeper »
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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Peculiar shooting position Reply #14 - Jan 22^nd, 2017 at 5:49am	Print Post
	Sorry 'Culpeper', I was just engaging in the old German practice of "Freudenwerfenunterbusen", to deflect attention from my Time Travel experiments. 'Parashooter' detected that I was in the future with my 'slip' of dates. Thanks for sharing the 1898 Ohio N. G. Roster information on Charles B. Winder. In 1912, Lt. Colonel Winder was the first National Guardsman, to pass pilot training, at the U.S. Army 'flight school'.


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