Being a 'Bottom Feeder', I could not resist picking up this 3-shot Berthier rifle with a cut-down stock, for $130.

It was manufactured by Remington, has a mint bore, and looks "new" on the inside.

Unfortunately, the stock wrist was thinned down and the bayonet lugs were neatly filed off of the full-length barrel. So, it is not a great candidate for restoration.

It should be a fine and fun 'shooter'. I enjoy shooting Prvi 8mm Lebel ammo.

The bayonet lugs on the barrel did nothing to improve accuracy.  That rifle was just a long handle for a bayonet, sort of a bolt-action pike or spear.  And maybe the bayonet lugs got caught on brush, vines & fences. 

I would be interested in how accurately it shoots. Cutting the barrel back past the bayonet lugs might stabilize vibrations and improve accuracy. Please keep us posted.

I have a M-1886 Kropatschek, 8x60R.  Best it will do is a paper plate at 100 yards. Pretty dismal.

One of my Krags has a front sight from a coin.  In good light, you can see "In God We".  I think it is a part of an old silver dime.

Have you measured groove diameter on the Berthiers?

Thanks 'Hoot'. I have one rusty original and one repro 3-shot Berthier 'chargers'. The original one works best.

'Reincarnated' - The bore is beautiful and looks like it was 'Rifled' yesterday! Slugged Bore diameter is .317". Groove diameter is .329".

Barrel length is approx. 31 1/2".

I slugged the bore of a French built, (Chatellerault - 1917), Berthier rifle, today.

Surprisingly, it had the same dimensions, .317" bore and .329" groove diameter, as the Remington barrel.

This French made Berthier rifle has an "N" stamped on the receiver ring. This indicates the chamber was altered and will accept the 8mm Lebel machine gun round which has a larger neck diameter. This was part of a conversion program carried out by the French in the 1920s.

The French Military cancelled the contract with Remington during WW1. Whether the Arms were rejected due to late delivery, manufacturing flaws, or dimensional errors in the Remington rifles, seems unknown and subject to debate. The U.S. Government ended up buying the 'rejected' rifles. They were later sold as surplus to U.S. Civilians, after WW1.

Remington made 8mm Lebel military ammo on contract for the French during WW1. Remington manufactured sporting 8mm Lebel ammo into the 1950s for the U.S. market.

The 8mm Lebel round is the 'grand daddy' of smokeless ammo and Spitzer bullets. The cartridge case was cursed by being the 11mm Gras necked-down to 8mm. The drastic bottle-neck was necessitated by the Lebel rifle's tubular magazine. The Berthier (clip-loading) design was adopted later and made in great numbers during WW1.

Attached photo L-R:

(1.) A Kynock 1886 'Balle M' round with .323" diameter, 232 gr flat nosed bullet.

(2.) An 1898 French 'Balle D' round, dated 1916, solid bronze 198 gr bullet, .325" diameter, Trench Art alteration to letter-opener.

(3.) A French 1932-N cartridge, made in 1939, 232 gr lead-core, cupronickel jacket, .325" diameter.

(4.) A Commercial Prvi cartridge, 198 gr FMJ, .326" diameter. 

Note - The maximum diameter of the 'Balle D' projectile is in front of the case mouth (crimp groove). Some sources give the maximum diameter as .3275".

Unaltered French arms use the 'Balle D' round and safely accept Prvi ammo.

My Portuguese Kropatschek is a restored military but with the same deep grooves, about the same land & groove measurements, and gives the same sort of accuracy.  It will usually keep most of them in a paper plate at 100 yards.  I had a bullet mould that cast .328, but once I loaded the fat bullets in the cases (8x60R, made from .348 Winchesters) I could not get them to chamber.  Best luck I had was with bullets from a box marked "for 8mm Remington Magnum".  They were made by one of the regular bullet makers, maybe even Remington, and they were heavy, maybe 225 grains.  Those would all stay in the paper plate at 100.

I think the deep grooves are from early theory on how to make a barrel for a smokeless powder military rifle shooting jacketed bullets.  I think the deep grooves were intended as a place to store powder fouling while continuing to shoot, and also to allow some semblance of accuracy while the barrel was worn away from shooting a few thousand rounds. 

The issue bullets for the Kropatschek are steel, maybe plated with  cupro-nickle.  They probably caused a lot of bore wear.  The issue 8x60R loads were compressed BP. 

Could you get that Remington to shoot accurately? If it were mine, I would find some tapered soft lead alloy bullets intended for a 32-40 or .33-40 single shot target rifle.  Lubricate them with something like SPG. Breech-seat them in the barrel just ahead of the chamber.  Use a fired case with a dowel in the case mouth as a tool to push the bullet into place.  Then try a mild load of fast smokeless.  Maybe 15 grains of 4227.  The only wad should be at the neck, to prevent the powder from spilling out.