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Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? (Read 3608 times)

butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Jun 22^nd, 2017 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	I have had good luck with S&S Firearms over the years with minor original parts and some reproduction sight-knobs. They seem an ethical company and clearly advertise what they are selling. They offer some useful replacement parts for items that are otherwise unobtainable. Recently, I received an email from them, announcing the availability (again) of 're-manufactured replica' 1898 and 1902 carbine sights, (@ $130). In the past, S&S has offered re-worked/re-marked model 1896 rifle sights, made into quasi-carbine sights. (A specimen is 'exposed' on the KCA photo pages). I believe a line is crossed, when original parts are machined and altered and given bogus Markings. (I rather have an incorrect, but, original sight). (A line is definitely crossed, when gun stocks are given new 'cartouche' markings)! Although truthfully sold at the start, these items get in the pipeline and are sure to fool someone down the road and cause grief. Collecting and restoration work of historic objects is a matter of ethics and 'Buyer Beware'. It is necessary to know the character of the 'Seller' and to stay on top of the bogus items that are floating around.


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h8pvmnt KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 52 Location: Gilbert, AZ Joined: Dec 21^st, 2016 Gender:	Re: Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Reply #1 - Jun 22^nd, 2017 at 6:33pm	Print Post
	Same Problem exists in the Classic Car world. If classic cars had to be restored with all original parts there would not be any classic cars left. A car that is "All Original" is worth more but its the buyers job to verify that. Same thing for historic guns. We are all not lucky enough or rich enough or old enough to have acquired 100% original Krags. I recently restored my Grandfathers Krag and was delighted to be able to acquire period correct parts to put it back as close to original as i could. I have no intention of selling it. But who knows when i am gone what will happen to it. In the case of this carbine sight that poses a bigger issue as the originals are very expensive. I would guess that these will make it onto ebay and gunbroker as originals. This is a crime. For someone restoring a sporterized gun the SS sight would be a great find. So ethically i do not think we can fault SS but we must be aware that the reproductions exist. Not sure what someone is to do. In some cases it may be nearly impossible for normal people to discern the difference.

	Mike W.
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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Reply #2 - Jun 22^nd, 2017 at 6:55pm	Print Post
	Lucky Enough?, Rich Enough?, Old Enough? - I think I've been called "OLD". Hey, one out of three ain't bad! Remember the Western Scottish Highland saying: "There is nothing older, unless it's the Hills, MacArthur, and the Devil".
	« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2017 at 4:44pm by butlersrangers »

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madsenshooter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1079 Joined: Sep 10^th, 2009	Re: Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Reply #3 - Jun 22^nd, 2017 at 8:53pm	Print Post
	I noticed an otherwise correct 96 carbine not long ago while surfing around that had an obviously fake 1896 cartouche. Guy was so proud of it, I didn't have the heart to say anything about it.


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AFJuvat KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 65 Location: Jacksonville, FL Joined: Mar 10^th, 2017 Gender:	Re: Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Reply #4 - Jul 6^th, 2017 at 12:29pm	Print Post
	Re manufacturing one sight from the other was probably done as a cost savings measure - It is cheaper to modify an existing sight than have a new one machined from scratch, particularly if there is an ample surplus of donor sights, and very few of the sight you are trying to produce. Personally, I am ok with reproduction parts in some cases. We collect old rifles, some original parts are difficult, if not impossible to find - particularly cloth and leather accessories. If my reproduction Krag sling gets beaten up at the range, I am out $25, taking a real one out of the house would make me nervous. I don't think it is crossing a line providing that the sellers are honest about it. Sadly, some reproductions will get passed off as authentic. IMO, reproduction parts should have some marking on them that clearly identifies them as reproduction.


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reincarnated KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 562 Joined: Mar 11^th, 2012	Re: Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Reply #5 - Jul 6^th, 2017 at 2:57pm	Print Post
	With parts like the rare sights from S&S, there could be a small mark added on the bottom of the base. If I made them, I would so mark them. But that is far from the only part or practice that may well cross the line. Take a look at the practices of those who "restore" Winchesters from the pre-Krag and Krag era. It is possible to buy newly-made roll stamps that mimic the markings (models, makers, patent numbers) on the barrels of the originals. You can have worn serial numbers "touched up" or new but "old looking" numbers engraved. You can buy new stamps with inspector's marks and cartouches. Seems to me that the guys who make & sell that stuff do so for the benefit of those who deliberately cross the line.


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Local Boy KCA Forum Member KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 462 Location: Mat-Su Valley, Alaska Joined: Sep 24^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Fakery & Reproduction - where is the line? Reply #6 - Jul 11^th, 2017 at 3:15am	Print Post
	I guess there is no line... Came across this item on Gun Broker while searching the category "Trench Shotguns" *"Etching Stencil Flaming Bomb Trench Shotgun Rifle"* One use device that uses a 9 volt battery for for etching. Close inspection would reveal that it's a fake mark but...


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