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Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery. (Read 4199 times)
Man-Goat
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Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:02am
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Hello everyone,

It's been a while since I posted here however since last time y'all were so helpful I figured I would see if you could help with this boggle. I recently acquired a C.A.I. imported k1911. At least that's what the marking says. However the serial number is way too low for her to have been manufactured as such. Her number is in the 133xx range. I know it's not uncommon for older models to have been retrofitted into newer models and my research has lead me to come to the conclusion that she was originally either a 1889/1900 rifle or a 1905 Calvary rifle. The serial number chart that I'm using says her number falls in the range for a 1915 mfg. date. That's all well and good. What interests me is another marking, concurrent with the serial number. It's a P#. This interests me because in the serial number tables there was a series of 1889/1900 short rifles that were manufactured for export / private sale. The marking is P64 which puts her in two ranges, either 1/176 or 1/89. Basically I'm wondering, did I stumble into a real unique little rifle or does the P# mean something entirely different and I'm reading too much into things?

Serial number info - (You need to Login to view media files and links)

Man-Goat
  
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Man-Goat
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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #1 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 10:27pm
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Hello,

As an addendum I found this tag under the buttplate.
It means that Mr. Heinrich Sigrist who was born in 1908 stationed in Obfelden in the 1st Füsilier Kompagnie of the 184th battalion was issued the rifle that I bought. The history on these old girls is really something special.  Smiley
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #2 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 4:58am
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The table you reference contains a well-known error. The third column is actually just a cumulative total of conversions, not serial numbers. If you think about it, converting all those arms in serial number order would have been a logistical nightmare to no practical purpose.

Quote:
Model 1911 Carbines (Karabiner)
Converted from Model 1889/1900 Short Rifles and Model 1905 Cavalry Carbines
Year      Quantity      Serial numbers [wrong!]
1913      1000      1-1000
1914      8000      1001-9000
1915      8000      9001-17000
1916      8200      17001-25200
1917      900      25201-26100
1918      100      26101-26200
1919      70      26201-26270
1920      65      26271-26335

           
The partial serial given is that of a 1900 short rifle originally manufactured in 1908. The "P64" is most likely to mean "Privatized in 1964". Pictures could assist positive ID.

Nothing unusual.
  
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Man-Goat
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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #3 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:45pm
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Hello Parashooter,

Sorry for the delay, been a rough week. Here is a picture of the serial number and the other markings on the rifle. Thanks in advance!
  
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Parashooter
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Kragmudgeon

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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #4 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 12:40am
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That's a typical late-style privatization mark. It means that the arm was released from government ownership in 1964.
  
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Man-Goat
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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #5 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 2:25am
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Awesome! Thank you. I love knowing the history behind the guns in my collection. Can any other info be derived from the markings? I would love to know everything snot it, which is why the little tag made me so happy to see.

~Man-Goat
  
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Parashooter
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Kragmudgeon

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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #6 - Oct 14th, 2017 at 5:36am
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See (You need to Login to view media files and links) for markings.
  
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Man-Goat
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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #7 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 9:54pm
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Thank you very much, Parashooter. That was a really neat site and allowed me to know more about my rifle. I appreciate all your help.

~Man-Goat
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Swiss K11 or K1911 mystery.
Reply #8 - Oct 30th, 2017 at 2:13pm
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I was just reading a post on the Swiss Rifle Collector's facebook page.  Fellow was lamenting letting one of those 1900 short rifles get away from him.  Might have some collector value over other Swiss rifles.  Something for you to check into.
  
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