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Culpeper
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Cast bullet question
Nov 27th, 2017 at 5:44am
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Guys

I was reading Cast bullets in the .30-40 Krag by Glen E. Fryxell was wondering if any of you have experience with the bullets he wrote about in the piece.

It looks interesting.  It might be something I should try at some point.

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Krag 1902
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #1 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 3:16pm
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I have four Krag sporters and spend most of my range time with them shooting cast bullets exclusively. I have had my best results with the old traditional Ideal numbers 308284, 311274,311299 and 311290. I have shot a fair number of one inch, iron sighted, five shot groups at a hundred yards, and very many sub two inch groups. 311291 that is mentioned is another good one. I try to keep velocities about 1500 fps for mild report and recoil - and good results. I normally fire 300 five shot 30-40 groups over the course of a season.
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #2 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 3:45pm
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If there's any chance you plan to deer hunt with your Krag, this is a good one to consider:  (You need to Login to view media files and links)
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #3 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 4:04pm
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I'll look into those other molds.  Thanks.  Just a lot more reading to do before I even begin to get smart.  I gathered up about 150 pounds of COWW and over the last three years 240 pounds of linotype.  I should be able to do something with that once I get out of Africa

Deer hunting with a Krag.  Oy.  From your mouth to God's ear.  That would be a dream come true.  Unfornately I have to rely on my old standard .729 caliber Remington 11-87 rifle.  Deflates the heck out of deer if you hit their rib cages.  And the great thing is it leaves a barely noticable thumb sized hole inbound and outbound.  Eek!

  

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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #4 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 4:36pm
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Being in a slug only state is definitely a damper,,,,,,,.  Luckily my state started a pistol season about 20 years ago.  I'm sitting pretty with a 20" XP-100 in 30 Bellm.  (blown out and slightly shortened 30 BR) 

in the Spring I plan to test the 311-284 and the 299 against each other so that I can have Eric at Hollow
Point Mold Services do his thing for my '98 to deer hunt at the family farm in Tennessee next year.  I like the thought of going afield with a historically accurate rifle and cartridge load.

The Cast Boolits website should be your go to for loads and qustions.  The iq of the forum has dropped some in the last few years, but the search function on the site is a goldmine.

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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #5 - Nov 27th, 2017 at 11:42pm
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In my Bench Rest Krag, I shoot a 185 gr NOE 311365 sized to .311 that Bob Wolfe (Madsenshooter) casts for me.  I load em with 19 grains of AA5744 and a CCI 200 primer.  I can almost shoot a double at 200 yards.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #6 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 1:25am
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The 311365s that Paul is talking about are cast of a very hard yet malleable, alloy.  Though he's shooting them slower, I've found they're easily good for 2000fps.  Honestly, I think I've had them up around 2300-2400fps using a case full of slow burning powder.  I didn't get a good idea of accuracy at that velocity level, my sights were set for 2000fps and the much faster ones hit over the target.  There was no alloy blowing back on the case neck, a sure indicator of too much pressure for the alloy.  I'll get back to experimenting with them one of these days.  First I need another batch of that alloy!  Rich, this is the copper enriched stuff that you read about on castboolits.  I sorta made the discovery, and badgered ran with it.
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #7 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 1:43am
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Oh yes.  Castboolits is my third favorite location after Breitbart and KCA.

You're correct.  It is a gold mine of information.  But so is this forum.

Ohio started allowing certain straight wall cartridges a few years ago so I have been told.  I just never thought about spending more cash just to shoot seven days a year every other year or so.  Oh look at that.  I'm missing deer season again.


  

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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #8 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 4:01am
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we've used the 311291 and 311284 quite a bit in two Krag sporters, although at lower velocities, about 1500 fps.  Good accuracy and a lot of fun to shoot.  Low recoil and easy on century plus rifles.
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #9 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 4:48am
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"But so is this forum"

Boy, Howdy, and how,,,,,,,,
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #10 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 4:52am
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The copper really wasn't my idea, Whelen and Hudson were playing with a very high copper alloy. Ideal once sold the alloy, 80Pb, 10Sn, 7Sb, 3Cu.  It was called Ideal #1, or as Whelen referred to it, Ideal Bullet Metal, in his 1909 Suggestions to Military Rifleman.  I must've found the Ideal #1 in an old catalog.  I'm not close to that Cu percentage.
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 4:55am
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madsenshooter wrote on Nov 28th, 2017 at 1:25am:
The 311365s that Paul is talking about are cast of a very hard yet malleable, alloy.  Though he's shooting them slower, I've found they're easily good for 2000fps.  Honestly, I think I've had them up around 2300-2400fps using a case full of slow burning powder.  I didn't get a good idea of accuracy at that velocity level, my sights were set for 2000fps and the much faster ones hit over the target.  There was no alloy blowing back on the case neck, a sure indicator of too much pressure for the alloy.  I'll get back to experimenting with them one of these days.  First I need another batch of that alloy!  Rich, this is the copper enriched stuff that you read about on castboolits.  I sorta made the discovery, and badgered ran with it. 


LOVE copper enriched,,,,,,,amazingly tough stuff.  Bob, it's been long enough that I've forgotten the powder you were testing.  7383?

Next week after our firearm deer season is over I had it in mind to re peruse the 10B101 data to see what would apply to 165 and 195 grain cast loadings in the 30-40.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #12 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 5:00am
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I'm still working with that stuff, but the really fast 311365 loads with the high speed alloy was a case full of WC860 with a bit of boost.  The 7383 is doing great in the K31 with 168gr Sierra Tipped Matchkings.
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #13 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 1:14pm
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Copper enriched?  Is that like a kind of babbitt alloy?
  

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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #14 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 2:21pm
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Culpeper wrote on Nov 28th, 2017 at 1:14pm:
Copper enriched?  Is that like a kind of babbitt alloy?


Easiest way is adding number 11 Babbitt alloy to your lead alloy to get to 2-3% tin and antimony, and .1 to .2% copper.  It doesn't take much copper to get the benefits.  VERY tough alloy.  As I remember (it's been awhile since I smelted a batch), I believe I added one (approx. 2lb.) ingot to 48lb.s of 50/50 wheel weights and range scrap.

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One thing to note is that when casting using copper enriched, your pot temp will have to a bit higher to get good fill out.

  
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