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 25 Cast bullet question (Read 5263 times)
madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #30 - Dec 31st, 2017 at 5:18pm
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Make sure you get real lino.  I bought some very fine rules once.  The old printer even gave me a story about taking his lino to have it refreshed at a foundry, then taking the refreshed lino to another place to have his 2 pt rules cast.  (Rules are just lines, like the fine lines on writing paper).  I had some bad news for him, the place he got his rules at didn't use his alloy, and they were cast with something other than lino, cast with a machine other than a Linotype too.  The lino turned out to be about the same hardness as Lyman #2!  There is a wee bit of copper in most type metals, though it isn't mentioned in most of the formulas you find.  I've never really shot straight lino, the benchrest cast bullet shooters at Washtenaw used it.  Lots of Sb, it might be a bit brittle, but should work if the pressure impulse is slow.  Heat treating WW is another way to get more velocity out of cast.

Expect your bullets to be a bit lighter, depending on the alloy they were spec'd with.  As an example, NOE specs theirs with WW.  Their 311284 comes in at 214gr w/o lube or check.  I have some cast of the same alloy I mixed up for the 311365s that Paul has, they are only 204gr checked and lubed.  Since I mentioned those 311365s, NOE weight with WW is 196gr, but those are 186gr checked and lubed with my alloy.  Others like Lyman spec theirs with Lyman #2.
  
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Fiddler
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #31 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 12:45am
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I've had excellent results with 311467, 311284, Lee 180, NOE 311-174 ELCO and NOE 310-196 MX2-30H. They are all capable of 1 1/4" to 1 3/4" at 100 yds. My bore is .310 so I size them large and a bore riding nose dia. is a good thing. The powder selection has been 2400, 4759, 4064,  Benchmark and Varget

The NOE 310-196 will not feed in my rifle, the others are OK. The rifle has a 1902 sight and the front blade has been replaced with a home made, higher post with square corners.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #32 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 3:47am
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I like that 30-H so much, I might even put a spot of brass on an extra sideplate, see if I can get it to feed.  I have one of Eagan's molds, which is a nosepour, standard size, but also got the 314 and 316 versions from NOE.  My Garand really likes the .314 version, sized .310.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #33 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 10:01pm
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Although those NOE 311365s are a spitzer design, and I only shot them in BR matches at Washtenaw (single shot only), I'm fairly certain they'd feed ok.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #34 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 5:02pm
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They're pointy enough to prick your finger on, and the ogive is large enough to push that point into the chamber on my rifles.  No nose diving into the edge of the chamber.  If I had more of the alloy that I cast Paul's with, I'd commit to using them at Camp Perry even though I've already purchased some 173gr .310 diameter FMJBTs to experiment with.  I've long liked the idea of using bullets made myself.  I know the NOE 311284 can be seated out enough to contact the rifling and still be short enough to function through the magazine.  Another candidate for use.
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #35 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 3:36pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jan 1st, 2018 at 12:45am:
I've had excellent results with 311467, 311284, Lee 180, NOE 311-174 ELCO and NOE 310-196 MX2-30H. They are all capable of 1 1/4" to 1 3/4" at 100 yds. My bore is .310 so I size them large and a bore riding nose dia. is a good thing. The powder selection has been 2400, 4759, 4064,  Benchmark and Varget

The NOE 310-196 will not feed in my rifle, the others are OK. The rifle has a 1902 sight and the front blade has been replaced with a home made, higher post with square corners.


May I ask what load you tried the MX2-30H with?  I have had great success with it in the 300 Blackout and had thought to try it in the Krag along with a couple of others.  Sorry to hear it wouldn't feed, I'm hopeful that won't be the case with mine, it just flies so nicely at moderate speeds out to 265 yards.
  
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Fiddler
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #36 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 7:17pm
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24 to 26 grs of 4064 gets them to group at under 2" at 100 yds. Using 4895 or Varget would probably be same general velocity range. Since they wouldn't feed I stopped experimenting with that design. Why did I stop?  Haven't a clue, I never use the mag. anyway.
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #37 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 11:34pm
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Thank you Fiddler.

They are kind of an odd duck, aren't they?
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #38 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 2:20am
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On the subject of cast for Camp Perry, I do have a quantity of NOE's 311284 that are cast of the alloy I used for Paul's bullets above.  I've had that alloy up over 211,000rpm in a 6x45 AR with a 1/8 twist and was getting good accuracy.  2000fps in a Krag would only be 144,000rpm.  I have a good selection of slow burning powders.  The bullets have been aging a few years, they're already sized and sorted by weight, 204 point something checked and lubed. A lot of casters say the 311284's accuracy tops out at around 1800fps, but it might have a velocity range it likes up a little higher.  The 311365 seemed to me to like 2175fps or so.  Totally different bullet of course.  I'll get enough loads together to see if the accuracy will hold up for 35rds.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #39 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 6:18pm
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I noted that these 311284s came out to be about the same weight as the 311365s that I tried shooting at Camp Perry a few years back.  So, I found some Quickload data for a 30" barreled Krag that BadgerEdd had worked up for me, the goal of which was to get 2150fps from a 203gr cast bullet.  I had too much lead in the alloy with the 311365 weighing in at 203, but these 311284s are cast of a much stronger alloy.  I guess we'll see whether or not there's truly a loss of accuracy above 1700-1800fps with the 311284, or if it's more a matter of the alloy the caster has used not being capable of handling the higher velocity. 

38gr of 760, fired with a CCI #34 primer, since they're designed to fire ball powders used in the 7.62x51.  Bullets were seated out to the rifle's throat, some of which I feel I washed away shooting high nitroglycerin powders.  I see four little rifling marks on the .302" borerider and a mark where the .311" upper band is just touching the conical throat. This is at an OAL of 3.117".  I decided to seat to 3.1" for the sake of magazine and charger function and to leave a little room in case I need to unload a round. 

Edd's data estimates 30,259psi chamber pressure.  With a pressure of 5109psi remaining at bullet exit.  I've still not found my RL19!
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #40 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 4:43am
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Funny you should mention Badgeredd,,,,,,,,,he built mine,,,,,.

Following intently Bob.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #41 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 5:22pm
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I'm assuming you mean your Krag.  I still have the chunk of railroad babbitt he sent me somewhere in my mess.  It may be some time before things thaw enough to get out shooting, so I may as well load some of those .310 diameter jacketed bullets.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #42 - Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:17pm
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Aha!  I finally found my RL19!  I don't have as much of it as I thought I did though!  As luck would have it, I found a couple lbs up for auction online at a nearby gun store that's going under!  Some H414 too!  I'd nearly forgot how chunky this RL19 is, I can fit 3gr more 4831SC than RL19 under a Hornady 174gr FMJBT seated to the crimp groove in max length cases with no compression.
  
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Hamish
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #43 - Jan 29th, 2018 at 3:01am
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If you're wanting to push velocities you're really going to like that babbitt,,,,,.

Always nice to find a deal!
  
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Re: Cast bullet question
Reply #44 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 9:41am
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Alrighty.  See if my eighth grade science class has held up.  Cutting pure lead with less dense metal causes the over all volume to go.  ...up?  So my future lino bullet would be longer for a set weight of let's same 200 grains?
  

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