Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
 25 Krag Bolt Lug Inspection (Read 10931 times)
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #15 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 8:13pm
Print Post  
I would have liked to seen that one with a magnifier. The shear line goes through the area the case hardening would not reach. The areas near the surface do not seem as fine grained as I would expect, most of the sheared surface seems coarse which to me means not so hard. First guess is a serious overload is the cause.
if I attached the photo correctly it is a tractor axle, you can see the fine grain near the surface, I do not know if the axle was case hardened or selectively hardened, but the relative hardness is indicated by the grain size.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #16 - Dec 20th, 2017 at 11:24pm
Print Post  
Looked at Butlers rangers photo again and I think I see fine grain at the "corner" at 3 o-clock and a thin line on the bolt face and maybe a little thicker along the edge from 5 to 6 o-clock. If this I am really seeing that then the original heat treating is not suspect. Really hard to tell with the photo quality.
If there was old bore solvent, grease and oil on a portion of the fractured surface you could think that it let go gradually over the years. Makes me want to think it went all at once due to an over load.
Was there also a photo of the guide rib?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JChannum
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 7
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Joined: Dec 7th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #17 - Dec 21st, 2017 at 1:52am
Print Post  
The rusted/discolored area in BR's photo indicates to me that the bolt lug had been cracked almost through for a long time. It was only held together by the shiny triangular section at 3 o-clock and possibly a couple of other smaller areas that also do not show the rust.
  

Jim H.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #18 - Dec 21st, 2017 at 2:50pm
Print Post  
I saw the red also but thought the bolt may have been lying around for years since it came out of a "junk" box. If it was from an outside part that was exposed to the elements rust would be a real indicator. On a gun not sure. Stored in a box at the back of a bench after it broke, the softer areas further away from the lubricant will rust first. A lot of questions would need to be answered first and better photos would be needed to say what happened.
I was asked for an opinion on that tractor axle, the machine had 60 hours on it, but not being there when it broke left enough questions as to whether it should have been a warranty issue. If the operator side stepped the clutch when the engine was wide open would be one thing or did it break while pulling a steady load? The machine was stuck up to the axle in wet sand. The owner was not the one operating the tractor so no one questioned really knew what happened. All I could go by was the appearance of the grain structure of the steel, it looked right.
For all the comments about Krags in the reloading books there are very few cracked bolts to be seen.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2391
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #19 - Dec 22nd, 2017 at 12:47pm
Print Post  
I downloaded this picture from GunBroker a while back (forgot I had it).  I don't know who took the picture and can't remember who posted it... but it does illustrate an example of a cracked Krag bolt!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #20 - Dec 22nd, 2017 at 3:27pm
Print Post  
psteinmayer wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 12:47pm:
I downloaded this picture from GunBroker a while back (forgot I had it).  I don't know who took the picture and can't remember who posted it... but it does illustrate an example of a cracked Krag bolt!

Not many examples out there, it looks like the one on top has a crack through the bright spot from the flash/light. Not bad considering almost 500,000 made, a century plus of use, and with many still being used on a regular basis. Not too many other products have been in continuous use for a century with as few failures.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zgun
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 80
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #21 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 1:15am
Print Post  
Just read this thread, I just happen to have a bolt with a visible crack.  A gunsmith friend gave me a cut down rifle. Upon inspection of the bolt this is what I found. You can not really feel the crack but it is obvious the bolt is cracked under visual inspection.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zgun
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 80
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #22 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 1:19am
Print Post  
5 X magnified
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #23 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 3:59am
Print Post  
'Zgun' - Thanks for the pictures. I think you and your gunsmith friend are correct.

IMHO - First evidence of a developing crack is probably subtle, below the surface 'skin', and easily missed or assumed to be 'galling' or a finish blemish.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zgun
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 80
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #24 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:01pm
Print Post  
I agree Chuck. I have another Krag bolt with a similar crack that came from a DCM Krag that my grandfather purchased in 1928. (for $8.50) The family never shot anything but factory ammo so I know it did not crack from them shooting hot hand loads.  I have the paperwork of the ship date on the replacement bolt that was purchased somewhere, think it was 1968.  I would hazard a guess that maybe that one shot some amount of the hot stuff that was issued to increase the velocity and was stressed enough that it eventually cracked after 60 years.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zgun
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 80
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #25 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 12:48am
Print Post  
I found the packaging from the box for the replacement bolt my Grandfather purchased.

$12.20 COD.  Smiley

Flaig's is a well know  gun shop/supplier from the 50's and 60's.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zgun
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 80
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #26 - Feb 4th, 2018 at 12:49am
Print Post  
Shipment Label
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
madsenshooter
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 1079
Joined: Sep 10th, 2009
Re: Krag Bolt Lug Inspection
Reply #27 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 3:00am
Print Post  
I've read in more than one discussion in the past that someone thought some Krag bolts were over hardened, they were the ones that cracked.  Others stretched over many firings, without cracking, until they bore on the guide rib also.  And then there's the ones that were lapped.  A Lt Col friend of mine tried that, lapped the lug until the guide rib touched on a new bolt body, then discovered he had excess headspace due to his work.  Interesting to note, his lapping did not take any of the locking recess metal from the receiver, another new bolt body headspaced properly.  Sometimes, a cracked, stretched or highly stressed area will show as rubbing on the bolt body. Thanks for bringing up Flaig's, I need my memory jogged from time about where a curly maple Krag blank I have came from.  Always forget the name of the company!  The inletting on the blank is short enough, it could be used for the US or Norwegian models.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint