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 25 Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen (Read 17930 times)
Knute1
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Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Mar 10th, 2018 at 1:11am
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I've been conversing with an uncle (in his 80's) about an ancestor (his grandfather, my great-grandfather) over the phone lately. Our ancestor  was in the 14th Infantry Regiment and carried a Krag in the Filippino Insurrection and the Boxer Rebellion. My uncle just offered me to buy a Krag he apparently bought some years back. It's a Model 1892 upgraded to 1896. Serial #21XX. Still in military configuration, good bore, still has the stamping in the stock (1894 dated). I only met him maybe a dozen times, but know him to be a stand up guy. He offered it to me for $750. That is all he wants, no more. Just what he had in it. He will be dropping it off at my parents house in the next month for me to look at it before buying when I get up home. You're kidding me.............right? How can I pass this up? I presently have a sporterized 1896, which I have enjoyed shooting. If this Model 1892 is as good as he says it should be worth more, but I won't be letting go of it. Somebody pinch me!!! If I get it (should be a for sure thing) I'll post some pics.
  
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Kerz
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #1 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 9:44am
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Can't offer much help on pricing but sounds good to me.  I'm sure the experts will provide some good advice. I do know condition is dang near everything.

I've got a couple of 98s.  My first was a project gun that started out reasonable in a trade but eventually ended up$800+ (new barrel, handguard, sights, shipping (2 trips to gunsmith), ejector, magazine box parts, etc.  So goes the story.  Ha!  And damn if it still ain't in the shop for feeding issues and headspace too tight.  The second 98 is very nice.  Purchased for $650 shipped.

Anxious to see your new acquisition. Pics are always good!

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Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #2 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 3:02pm
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Unfortunately, I may be jumping the gun (pun intended) since I started this post without seeing the gun, only a description. But I couldn't contain myself and wanted to share with others that may understand my excitement. My uncle does not have a computer so he won't be sending me any pictures. This won't be instant gratification, so I will just have to wait for him to come down from the north with the gun for me to see during a visit that isn't scheduled yet. He is about 4-5 hours away. If it isn't soon I may have to make the trip up. I have only recently discovered that my uncle was once an avid gun collector and had more than a few Winchesters (1873, 1876, 1886, 1895, etc). I did not realize that he had any Krag Jorgensens until a day ago.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #3 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 7:47pm
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'Knute1' - It is good to savor and anticipate adding an original Krag to your collection!

The early model 1892 Krags updated to model 1896 configuration in the early 1900's are an interesting variation.

If you do not have it, I would suggest you purchase a copy of Joe Poyer's book, "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine". It is not perfect, but, will explain a lot and answer basic questions. It will make your wait more productive! It sells for about $25 on eBay.
  
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olderthansome
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #4 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:25am
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Knute1 wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 3:02pm:
Unfortunately, I may be jumping the gun (pun intended) since I started this post without seeing the gun, only a description. But I couldn't contain myself and wanted to share with others that may understand my excitement. My uncle does not have a computer so he won't be sending me any pictures. This won't be instant gratification, so I will just have to wait for him to come down from the north with the gun for me to see during a visit that isn't scheduled yet. He is about 4-5 hours away. If it isn't soon I may have to make the trip up. I have only recently discovered that my uncle was once an avid gun collector and had more than a few Winchesters (1873, 1876, 1886, 1895, etc). I did not realize that he had any Krag Jorgensens until a day ago.

Even though this Krag is an antique, it might be wise to consider going up north yourself. (If Wisconsin, it is an adjoining state)  Asking anyone from outside Ill Annoy to bring any firearm - even an antique - into Ill Annoy without a FOID card should , at least, be looked into.  When I lived there, antiques were not a problem unless there was ammunition present, but in the time since I left, I've heard that things have only gotten worse.
  
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Kerz
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #5 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 11:11am
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Damn shame!  I never even gave a second thought to problems of bringing a Krag, or any other firearm, into the state.  But I don't live in Illinois either.
  

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Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #6 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 4:57pm
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My uncle lives in central Wisconsin. My folks live in southwestern Wisconsin. I live in northwestern Illinois, just 20 miles south of the Cheese Curtain. I'll be bringing it through the Cheese Curtain with my FOID card into Foidistan (Illinois). Won't be a problem, but thanks for the concern. Just something we have to live with in Illinois due to Chicago Land politics. Fortunately, my county Sheriff has the same views as most of us do. He recommends that  I get conceal/carry. After all, a lot of criminals carry.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #7 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 3:56am
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Picked her up today after work and just got home after passing back through the cheddar curtain. Needed to wind down before going to bed, so I thought I'd share my new acquisition.
My uncle at first wanted $750. He came down to $650 before I even started talking price. But after some expert negotiating on my part I gave him $700 Wink. He included a Spanish-American service badge with it, 1898 book on the Spanish-American War and an oiler (which I need to check out if it is proper for this gun).
The gun isn't exactly what I heard over the phone, but it is still in original military condition. The top line on the receiver reads "U.S." The second line reads "1894.       SPRINGFIELD ARMORY         
      21015". So this puts it into 1896. The cartouche also indicates 1896. The cleaning rod groove has the usual expertly installed filler piece and has the rounded bottom versus the squared off bottom. I believe everything is correct except for the sling. I'll post pictures as time allows. There are three sections of cleaning rods in the butt.
My uncle knew me as a young boy, not as an almost grown man at the age of 59. He doesn't know my dry sense of humor. So when I told him after the deal that all I needed to do now was to shorten the barrel and put a scope on it, well, that was a mean thing to do to a 84 year old man. Took a lot of explaining on my part to calm him down and that the gun wasn't going to be altered. Won't do that again. Sorry Uncle Gordon.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #8 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 6:09am
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I have one rather close (20197) which is still as built - or -as Joe Farmer calls the wobblers in this general area a "Magazine Rifle", neither an 1892 nor an 1896, but with features of both.

Flat muzzle
Long cleaning rod
1896 rear sight, but still with short handguard
Thin-wrist stock
Thick curved buttplate without trap.
[JSA/1896] cartouche
  
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Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #9 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 9:50pm
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So I have:
  A crowned muzzle.
  Curved butt plate with trap.
  Cleaning rods in trap.
  1896 sight, long handguard.
  JSA/1896 cartouche.
  Cleaning rod channel under barrel filled in with rounded strip.

Dick, are you suggesting this is a "transitional" set up? Using up some of the Model 1892 parts (stock, etc.) with some of the newly developed Model 1896 parts before getting into the full blown Model 1896 Model?
  
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Mark_Daiute
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #10 - Apr 27th, 2018 at 11:10am
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sounds for all the world like you have one of the many thousands of 1892 rifles that was upgraded to 1896 config. Your extractor has the hold-open pin, yes?

For an explanation and description of the "Magazine Rifle" visit 5madfarmers dot com
  
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Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #11 - Apr 27th, 2018 at 10:43pm
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Yes, Mark, it has the hold-open pin. This gun was portrayed to me as a Model 1892 upgraded to 1896. I may have misinterpreted what Dick was saying.
So this gun apparently started out as a Model 1892.
The "1894" on the receiver means what?
The serial number shows the gun being built in October 1895?
The cartouche indicates it wasn't inspected until some time in 1896?
I don't have a cement head, but my skull is thick.
  
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #12 - Apr 28th, 2018 at 1:18am
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Yes your rifle probably started life as a model 1892. Production didn't start until 1894.
Early rifles were stamped with the year of production, 1894 is the year that the receiver was made. this ceased mid model 1896 production then the model was stamped on the receiver
Where did you get your serial number info?
Stock was probably switched during refurb. at some time in its life.
During production parts were placed in bins and pulled at random, "first one in last one out" nothing was done in perfect sequence. Slight over laps happen from time to time.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #13 - Apr 28th, 2018 at 3:30am
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The serial number is 21015 on the receiver. I looked at Joe Poyer's book for date of mfg. It is admitted that this in not exact science and this is more of an approximation of mfg date. There may be a better way or no way to determine the date, but I don't know of it.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen
Reply #14 - Apr 28th, 2018 at 6:19am
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Joe Farmer has thrown the collecting world a bit of a curve with his "magazine rifle" nomenclature/theory/whatever. For eons we had pure '92s, pure '96s, and anything in between was thrown into the "'92/'96 conversion" sack. This was tidy enough for most folks, but Joe, brilliant micro-researcher that he is, found another path - which may well be the correct one.

The middle ground is VERY difficult to get a firm handle on, due to a lack of consistancy, and the fact that the guns themselves have been through so many hands. All sorts of configurations are possible.

In this case, because of the high serial number, I believe the arm was originally built as a "magazine rifle" (which still had a very '92 appearance - and a lot of '92 parts) but has had the 1896 conversion performed.
  
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